Thoughts on the Debate*
**Updated place holder for debate commentary**
While I had a full rundown on the debate question by question before the F@#$!! blogger.com crashed, I will offer you my quick synopsis and fill the detail in later. I'm sure the ever opinionated Mayor Sam will be adding his sharp wit in the near future as well.
Rank from one to five, five being best (In the Chief's opinion):
1) Bernie - He had to read his scripts, didn't stand out, and missed the opportunities to attack when needed.
2) Poopy - If you can't take the heat, you should get out of the kitchen. Oh, wait, that is why the four of them are running. he showed his true colors when pushed and didn't answer a single question without using the word "Bratton" Heck, Bratton should just show up at the next debate for him
Tie for 3) Antonio and Alarcon - Both hit their points. Both attacked when needed, but offered their own ideas on occasion. Alarcon speaks to the working man and Antonio is eloquent, but I fear what would happen if they weren't scripted.
5) Hertzberg - He attacked. He defended. He stood out. He actually offered plans for things, and he didn't duck the questions, as each of the previous four did on at least one occasion.
Since I don't have the transcript in a readable form anymore, you might want to check out LA Voice for a detailed account of the evening. Other editorials can be found on Boi From Troy, Martini Republic, and Lonewacko.
While I had a full rundown on the debate question by question before the F@#$!! blogger.com crashed, I will offer you my quick synopsis and fill the detail in later. I'm sure the ever opinionated Mayor Sam will be adding his sharp wit in the near future as well.
Rank from one to five, five being best (In the Chief's opinion):
1) Bernie - He had to read his scripts, didn't stand out, and missed the opportunities to attack when needed.
2) Poopy - If you can't take the heat, you should get out of the kitchen. Oh, wait, that is why the four of them are running. he showed his true colors when pushed and didn't answer a single question without using the word "Bratton" Heck, Bratton should just show up at the next debate for him
Tie for 3) Antonio and Alarcon - Both hit their points. Both attacked when needed, but offered their own ideas on occasion. Alarcon speaks to the working man and Antonio is eloquent, but I fear what would happen if they weren't scripted.
5) Hertzberg - He attacked. He defended. He stood out. He actually offered plans for things, and he didn't duck the questions, as each of the previous four did on at least one occasion.
Since I don't have the transcript in a readable form anymore, you might want to check out LA Voice for a detailed account of the evening. Other editorials can be found on Boi From Troy, Martini Republic, and Lonewacko.
Posted by Anonymous @ 12/02/2004 06:47:00 PM
31 Comments:
Meat was wrong again. I think it was Hahn and Alaracon. Bob was to fake, Parks was to uncomfortable and stumbled a lot, Tony again was making up accomplishments he's failed to do. Someone should research the 70 Neighborhood Watches he's repeatedly lied about. I'm glad he did say he's made his communities pick up trash. Tony has two divisons Northeast and Hollenbeck. No way are there 70 Neighborhood Watches combined. Another LIE and if he can lie about that!!! They ganged up again against Hahn and instead of taking the high road and showed some class they came off like cry babies. They ganged up on Hahn but let's see they have their own scandals. Parks with Rampart, Tony's support of gang bangers, and all of them who have taken campaign money from Fleishman-Hillard. How in the world can they say that Hahn hasn't done anything for public safety? Crime is down and the city loves Bratton. It's going to be a long road ahead.
Hertzberg lost the city workers' votes when he said civil servants aren't the best and brightest. None of the candidates stood out. I would have headlines the debate "Dumb and Dumber".
Gotta tell you all that I was impressed with Hahn holding his own and fighting back the big bullies. Hertzberg and Sunshine money and Tony with ENRON money that is going to hurt them. What a bunch of hypocrites. Alaracon had way too much make up and blush. It looked as though he got botox injections. Hertzberg sounded RACIST by saying afforable housing should be in South LA. Why not the Valley idiot? Parks who has his own baggage and corruption with Rampart had the nerve to say he's never heard pay-to-play. Everyone knows he a good liar. Not a politican then he shouldn't be running for mayor. Hahn came off good with his record on crime and Bratton. The other candidates really didn't say much about what they've DONE but had weak ideas on what they would DO. Big difference. They wasted too much time beating up on Jimmy and if you don't have a vision that's what you do.
FROM: Brian Hay (CIO for Bob Hertzberg)- brian@changela.com
In response to 'Hertzberg lost the city workers' votes when he said civil servants aren't the best and brightest.", I would like to relay publicly a message that I believe we also sent to your e-mail which we received.
----------------
I am very sorry if that is the implication you took from Bob's statement! What Bob was trying to say is that as recently as September 27, 2004, the LA Times was reporting that 9 city agencies had acting or interim general managers. Hahn was not only having trouble holding on to top managers, he was having trouble appointing them in the first place. In Bob's view, that is no way to run a city government.
Bob has the utmost respect for civil servants, their commitment and their intelligence. He will be disheartened to hear that a civil servant like you took his remarks last night the wrong way. And I'm sure he will make every effort to convey his respect for the City's civil servants in the future. Bob recognizes that nobody knows their departments better than civil servants, which is why he wants to make them an integral part of the governing process. For example, he wants to incentivize them for discovering new efficiencies in their departments. But he couldn't get those kinds of ideas across in 30 seconds last night.
I hope that as he conveys these ideas in the next few months, you will get a different impression of Bob.
Brian, don't pay attention to the last two comments. Meat's clearly smart enough to know that's not what Bob meant. By the way, Meat, didn't SEIU Local 347 already endorse Hahn? And as for the blogger who posted after Meat, nice attempt to spin last night's debate to make Hahn look better than the others . . . but you're too transparent!
The talk of the city today is the big scoop about Bob and Sunshine Canyon money and Tony with taking money from ENRON. If you don't think this is going to hurt them you're sadly mistaken. I think the 4 candidates lost their crediability because they've been harping about Hahn not making this city safe yet the numbers speak from themselves. Tony is lying through his teeth about creating 70 Neighborhood Watches. The facts are there its an outright lie. If you're going to lie about something make sure you cover your butt. That is going to hurt him again. Hahn looked the most comfortable, Bob looked like PLASTC MAN, people are calling him Band-Aid, Tony look too rehearsed and false, Alaracon too much makeup and alien looking, and Parks same old arrogant ass style. Although they tried to beat Hahn up I have to say he stood his ground.
Antonio lied when he said Jim Hahn hired Fleishman-Hillard. Laura Chick's report clearly shows that since 1998 Fleishman Hillard has billed the city 24 million.
He's so good at it he doesn't even realize he is misquoting "his good friend" Laura Chick's report.
Um, I'm not "Meat" and I posted the comment about civil service to which Brian Hay responded. I appreciate Brian's response, and I look forward to hearing Mr. Hertzberg say something nice about us civil workers.
I reaffirm my statement that no one stood out as "winning" (or even "saying something interesting") in last night's debate.
I think Hahn held his own and did very well until he lost it with Hertzberg and Villaraigosa.
Hertzberg - the one "real" guy who also had answers.
Villaraigosa - meek
Alarcon - started off slow but really started picking up and his closing was great
Bernie - Sad, sad.
As to the panel - Colleen Williams - no clue as to what she was doing. Ron Kaye and Jose Ronstadt (any relation to Linda?) - pretty lame, basically asking questions they were personalyl interested in. I hope they can get Rick Orlov and Jill Stewart for the next one!
bernie's poor performance last night must have cost him some endorsements. will magic endorse hertzberg?
I thought Villaraigosa was solid. He was on top of his game plus he came off as a real leader, the kind we need as Mayor of LA. Each of the candidates tried to make their case. Hahn looked like he didn't want to be there (is that a big surprise?). Parks got his hits in but he is a not convincing enough. Hertzberg has got a lot of work to get his name out there besides in the Valley plus taking money from BFI (operators of Sunshine Canyon Landfill) won't sit well with the good folks in the north SFV who vote in numbers. Alarcon was solid too despite running in the back of the pack. Overall, its Villaraigosa's to lose. Everyone else needs to pound Hahn to the ground.
TONY LIED LIED LIED. I'm from Highland Park and all you have to do is go into the LAPDonline website and there are the neighborhood watches. Most of my friends are on the ones in the Northeast side and there are maybe 3 in the Eastside. CPAB members are laughing about this cause we're all wondering where the hell are all these neighborhood watches tony said he created. aTHEY DON'T EXIST. Hahn looked the most comfortable. He didn't stumble, didn't quiver and you have 4 desperate rehearsed men trying to out do eachother. Why didn't any of them say anything about Hahn crime record? Cause it would have been all positive. Tony supports gangs all you have to do is look up his record in the assembly. He's against gang injunctions. I'll find the website and post. He took money from Enron...can someone please tell us how much??? Tony hasn't accomplished ANYTHING in CD14. He takes credit for everyone elses' work. He asked the Historic Highland Park Neighborhood Council for money and we said NO. We hear he's taken it from other NC's in CD 14. Isnt that a violation?????
Bob should run against Huizar for the LAUSD if he's so concerned about the schools. I have to tell you he sure doesn't make me want to vote for him as mayor. He came off as a pompous ass and that hairsprayed hair has to go. Wonder what the valley folks think about the money he took from the landfill company? Didn't someone say papers were served to find out how much Bob was paid by Fleishman-Hillard and which clients he worked on.People are interested to see what's in those papers.
Finally, MEAT has had his expected meltdown.
Debate? What debate? Here's my take:
JACKAL JIM HAHN
'Jackal Jim' blew it when he again lost his temper(as he did at UCLA with Soboroff).....Jackal's eyes narrowed....and we saw OH MY GOSH some emotion...even if it was negative and poorly delivered !!
He scored some on police, scored smaller on transportation issues, scored some on housing issues.....but LOST BIG on issues of integrity, issues of just what WAS accomplished in the four years he had been Mayor and had no answers for his judgment of selection of deputy Mayors or for that matter commissioners, responding to play to play, responding to why no cops when 11 billion for sky in the pie aviation plan. He was awful after the debate when his excuse for the grand jury investigations was that 'no on has been indicted....they are just investigations and accusations' statement.
Areas where he remains vulnerable:
1. HIS records have been supboenaed for criminal investigation.
2. Money remaining in departments (like ports and DWP, etc.) with no use since 911 for protecting their own areas and his whining about getting money elsewhere.
3. Troy Edwards, not only being a young fundraiser, BUT AS HERTZBERG MISSED in his comments, most importantly having no business experience to run these three major independent departments.Also remember it was in conversation that Edwards had that pay to play came up.
4. The appointment of commissioners dismissed by Riordan for their actions in and out of office to high commissions and his ignoring totally all calls for their removal until he had no choice.
5. His inability and lack of vision to find other resources in the last 4 years to get more police on streets to really have impact on public safety, while finding resources to fight secession, hosting campaign fund raisers, etc.
RICHARD ALARCON
An amazing job. Exceeded all expectations of anyone in audience or who even knows him. He was MAYORAL. He gave specific answers to specific questions. He is taking actions now with lawsuit vs DWP, ballot initiative, pending legislation to help make City better. While I am not a supporter of Alarcon, he deserves the credit for being most prepared and able to best answer in that format.
HUGGY BOB HERTZBERG
Surprised everyone with school breakup issue, even though old and limited jurisdiction of Mayor's office to do a damned thing. It set him apart at beginning and he was only of candidates to support breakup. Dangerous tactic but got others talking about his issue.....with their same old answers.
A bit weak in his response to Jackal Jims attack on he and Antonio about 'no lectures'. He asked permission from moderator to respond when he knew he wouldn't get it. Looked weak by playing by rules. At that point Antonio took over our of turn and cut Jackal Jim down when he tried to interrupt. Huggy needs to stand up and let people know he has cahones and can play by any rules or no rules. That is leadership.
Weak answer on Bratton seems 'like a nice guy(or fellow). Who the hell cares if he is a nice guy......and by many reports he isn't.....we just need a good chief which he seems intent on being.
Overall did suggest good ideas(after shock of his cutting to the chase introduction, turned into another break up LA schools). Obviously bright, thinks out of the box, great ambition, eloquent when he needs to be...just needs to connect and get his ideas out in sound bites instead of complicated theories.
'CHIEF' BERNARD PARKS
Stiff, like still in uniform. Seemed uncomfortable and needs to not look down so much when he is speaking. Reads too much. Good answer on Bratton remaining. Took Hahn on directly on many issues. Professional but a bit weak. Bringing up the bottom on this one. Needs some fire in his belly and needs to stop talking about his wife who is not liked by many.
ANTONIO V. (AV)
Passionate, fearless, caring and knows his stuff. Did much better than anticipated he would do. He stood up to Jackal Jim the moment the Jackal mistakenly stepping into AV's territory. You could tell he was just lying in wait.....and then pounced.
Some good ideas. A very strong candidate who was far more aggressive with Jackal Jim last night than he was during the entirety of the last campaign. AV is a man of the streets, he learns from experience. Jackal Jim ought to hope he isn't in the final with AV or he will see a different AV this time around.
OVERALL:
A good start to a rough campaign. The focus clearly is to keep Jackal Jim out of the runoffs.........and if last night was just the beginning. Jackal Jim may just be out of a job..........and then have to work for a living.
BIGGEST PROBLEM: The Mayor has a record(sort of) this time, and any way you look at it, it ain't impressive
Hey, Brian (CIO for Huggy), tell Huggy:
1. LAUSD is important but old news. We need new ideas !!! Mayor doesn't have authority to do crap with LAUSD under charter.
2. Huggy looked weak asking the moderator if he could respond to Hahn's rants. Antonio took the leadership role away when he interrupted and took it to Hahn. That is leadership.
3. No one cares if the Chief is a 'nice fella/guy'. Weak answer. We care if he is good.
4. Huggy thinks out of the box. Tell him to start putting it on the table in simple words. We don't care how smart he thinks he is, we care if he can deliver.
5. Huggy missed a big one and went light on 'Jackal Jim' when he forgot that not only was the deputy Mayor in charge of Airports, DWP and Port, a fundraiser(which doesn't alone disqualify him for anything) but he had no BUSINESS experience in these huge departments. Also, what about his commission appointments, like Pres. of Airport Commission, who also raised 'lots of funds' after running against Hahn for City Attorney and calling him all kinds of names during that race that any man of integrity......wouldn't have forgotten about....as did Hahn AFTER he raised lots of money for Hahn for Mayor...let alone appoint to a high position that he had been in and screwed up before !!!
Brian.....say what you mean and mean what you say. MOST, not all, in the City are NOT the best and brightest. We have to PAY to get them, but in this town only seem to 'pay to play' !!
MEAT, MEAT, MEAT.......CALM DOWN NOW, CALM DOWN. YOUR BEGINNING TO SOUND LIKE 'JACKAL JIM HAHN' OUT OF CONTROL AND SAYING SILLY THINGS !!!!!
YES, THIS IS FROM ANOTHER ANONYMOUS......SCARED SMART !!.....NOT STUPID.
HOLD ON TO YOUR 'MEAT'.....IT'S GETTING AWAY FROM YOU OJ !!!
Boys just chill. Bobby Boy appeared weak and look at Sunday's Opinion Section LA Times where they tell about the body language. Right on the mark with Huggy. Antonio came off dumb. Sorry meat but the LA Times said it best, "he doesn't have one issue and is all over the place." Body language they said that "grin" killed him. I"m still betting on Hahn. He got Bobby boy and Antonio on the special interest money right back. How in the hell can they have the nerve to talk about scandals and pay to play when in reality they have done the exact same thing? Mind you ENRON took old ladies' retirement money. Probably what Antonio used. He hasn't done anything for CD 14 and watch come 2005 it will all come out.
FROM MEAT:
I can tell you right now -- all the "good stuff" on Antonio that Hahn and Wardlaw were afriad to use in the 1st race was dumped on Antonio during the Pacheco campaign. Wardlaw (the slime he is) gave Pacheco "the file" on Antonio and Pacheco went buck wild crazy with it -- too bad Antonio beat him by nearly 20 points. "The file" is nearly empty and i am sure Antonio would love to have ENRON be the ticket that used against him this time around.
If its ENRON -- not very convincing. This mayor has sold Los Angeles, Antonio hasn't. Hahn put a fundraiser in charge of the 3 most important depts in this post 9/11 environment, not Antonio. Hahn hasn't shown the leadership for more police in 4 years, in 1 1/2 yrs Antonio has. Hahn let this city come to a grinding halt during the MTA strike, Antonio didn't, he solved it.
When it comes to leadership Antonio has it, Hahn is paralyzed by scandal.
What's really scary is that I think you believe that crap Meat. Antonio is one of the most disliked politicans in this city. I'm hearing citywide people are very leary of him as a politican. He should have given that $500,000 to LAPD instead of waste it on his commerical. Go to a community meeting in CD14 NOT Eagle Rock because we all know Antonio has catered only to them in CD 14, and hear what the people are talking about. I dare you Meat to go to a community meeting and you will hear the truth about what residents really think about the horrible job Antonio has done. He will never make it to Mayor. I will bet $1,000 on that...
FROM MEAT:
To the blogger above -- what crap are you referring to?
Do you believe that Pacheco & CO were light on Antonio? Or is it crap that Wardlaw gave his file to Pacheco? I am trying to figure out what was it that i wrote that was crap...hmmm maybe it was the stuff about Hahn putting his fundraiser in charge of the depts where homeland security is important. Perhaps you thought that was crap...whoever you are i find it really hard to see where you think the crap is. Who knows maybe its not in my posts where the crap is but just on your face, which is why whenever you read or see anything all you ever see is - crap.
Please point out the crap.
The CRAP that Antonio is feeding you. You are so far gone. Let me ask you this. Why is it that of all the people who post on this blogger YOU are the only one who supports Antonio? Most of the bloggers say negative statements about him and there's a lot out there on Mayor Sam site. The Mayor gets everyone going when he posts a Tony Villar item. I wish you stopped bringing in Pacheco. That's a cop out to avoid the issue of Antonio. Pacheco isn't running for Mayor Tony Villar is.
There are plenty of Villaraigosa supporters here on the blog rather than you people who don't know how to pronounce his name or claim to be from CD 14. It's probably the same person posting against Councilmember Villaraigosa anyways. You must have mulitple personalities to pull off this crap against the councilman. He is an effective leader that can form the necessary coaltions to bring dignity and respect to City Hall and Los Angeles. Get your facts straight people...you must be a buch of hacks who don't know anything about city politics. You just spend your time looking for a fight rather than joining one against a corrupt mayor and a bunch of feckless mayoral candidates. Good luck to your campaign of deception...you'll need it.
FROM MEAT:
The post above me was not from me, but i like his/her style.
I was asked some questions, so here are my answers.
Meat, why do you bring up Pacheco? Well some folks on this blog like to claim that Antonio has done nothing as a councilman, since Pacheco was in office prior to Antonio, sometimes its appropiate to bring him up in comparison.
Meat, is Antonio feeding you? No, he is not. But if folks think Antonio is feeding me, the former speaker of the CA assembly, national co-chair of the Kerry-Edwards ticket, city councilman, then i take that as a compliment, cause it means what i am saying is very close to hitting the right buttons to the crazies on this blog.
Meat, but what about the community? no seriously Meat, the community? Well, the only way we as folks, who want to learn as much about the community as we can have a tool at our disposal. It's called a survey (sometimes referred to as a poll) in a survey they call folks that live in CD 14 (like maybe 500 of them) from all across the district. They ask questions like, "whats your opinion of councilman villaraigosa?" and when we as good stewards of data analyse this information, we find out Antonio isn't going to be recalled.
BUT MEAT, THE COMMUNITY....? See previous answer.
I wish you guys had more ammo to shoot, but you don't. You are right Antonio is running for Mayor, but here we are talking about something that doesn't exist as oppose to something that does -- a campaign against a corrupt mayor who is paralyzed by scandal.
blog away.
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