Sanctuary church billed for protest
A Simi Valley church, acting as a "Sanctuary" for Illegal Aliens will need some extra collections. This is after the City of Simi Valley send them a $40,000+ bill for cost of maintain the "peace at a demonstration pertaining to illegal immigration.
This story highlights the controversy of churches acting as "Sanctuaries", thus, protesting U.S. immigration laws. These "LIBERATION FRONT CHURCHES" a term coined during the 1980's, to counter the Reagan Administration policies in Central America. Have now "cross the line" that separated politics from the doctrine of religious practices.
The "RELIGIOUS LEFT" is now a willing ally of the "POLITICAL LEFT" in attempting to break down immigration laws, erasing physical borders, thus building a new pool of "left-leaning, aka, democratic voters. Lets not forget that the battle over illegal immigration, as seen from the left, uses the "veil of racism" to mask a hostile takeover of the American political system.
Simply,these churches are actually harming immigrants. They should put their efforts in helping to reform a corrupt system of governments that forces their populations to flee for a better life in the "LAND OF PLENTY". Further, these churches, in concert with ethnocentric politicos, put these people in harm's way by reinforcing an "underworld" where gangs and thugs prey upon the hapless illegals.
In closing, surely we will hear loudly from the "fringes", "Aztlanistas" and "Kluckers" alike. But I challenge the rest of us to offer blunt, but rational thoughts on this issue.
CONSIDER THIS YOUR OPEN THREAD TO OPINE ON OTHER ISSUES OF THE DAY
AFTERNOON UPDATE: Mayor of Simi Valley will be on KFI's John and Ken Show at 4:20PM
LA Daily News - Simi Valley church billed $40,000 for protest
Posted by Red Spot in CD 14 @ 9/20/2007 09:50:00 AM
73 Comments:
With all the damn marches the illegals have had in our city I'm sure the $$$$$ is HUGE given LAPD goes on tactical alert meaning every officer is on stand by, then dept. of transportation, street services etc. Give them a bill for our city services. This was a great idea Simi Valley had. Why should us legal tax payers waste money on their bullshit
Don't forget certain (clears throat) legal settlement costs.
This is just batshit crazy stuff, G Spot.
You're out of your gourd, and you must know it.
"The "RELIGIOUS LEFT" is now a willing ally of the "POLITICAL LEFT" in attempting to break down immigration laws..."
For more than six years, the Political Right has been in control of federal policy regarding immigration and has chosen repeatedly not to enforce the law, nor have they been able to sell their own party on the right thing to do -- whatever that is. Can we agree that it is difficult to break down what was already broken?
Instead of calling on federal, state, or county government for intervention, Simi Valley bills a church for $40K? Now, that's a fine example of a local city government -- if you're into clueless leadership practices.
If they really want to make a statement, they should send the bill to the White House.
^
This appears to be a local problem, not a Federal problem.
Oops, silly me, didn't know that every city in the U.S. was responsible for enforcement of its own immigration policy!
So sorry!
^
You don't expct the Feds to pay for local crowd control, do you?
Wow, and they call ME a Kool Aid drinker....
Hi Jack,
You pay when you break the law. The same should also be said of businesses who exploit illegals for cheap work.
The Mayor and civic leaders of Simi said they don't want their city to turn into a sanctuary city, so making the church liable for the cost of cops was their way of discouraging them and others from harboring more illegals in the future. I think it will work.
Certainly it's each city's right to make that determination. Would that our city leaders hadn't given the opposite signal, that pro- illegal marchers were not only "protected" in our sanctuary city, but that our cops were dispensible.
Now what have we got? Are the Hispanics "grateful" for the freedom they had to march, with police protection, at city expense?
Sure they are -- that's why Carol Sobel (who also represents others sham artists like Matt Dowd, Mike Hunt and the dogg) and others are suing the city for many millions in "thanks."
Maybe next time they can take their "thanks" the the People's Republic by the Sea, Santa Monica, instead.
What idiots!!! It was reported citywide over 56% of hit and run are by illegals with no license or insurance but dumb Gil wants to help them. Putting more uneducated drivers on the road is irresponsible and plain stupid. If they don't have a license they should be driving and hundreds take the BUS.
....Bell Gardens Adopts Vehicle Impound Policy...The Bell Gardens City Council on Monday, during special meeting, approved a resolution to allow a person who has had their vehicle impounded and towed as a result of driving without an appropriate license to retrieve the vehicle the same day by a person they designate who possesses a current and valid license.
The resolution also requires the designated person to have a written consent from the owner of the vehicle. Senator Gil Cedillo (D-Los Angeles) who attended the city council meeting applauded the unanimous decision made by the city of Bell Gardens.
Cedillo, Bell Gardens Mayor Jennifer Rodriguez, Mayor Pro Tem Pedro Aceituno and council members Mario Beltran and Priscilla Flores held a news conference on Tuesday where the resolution was presented to the media.
A large percentage of the vehicles impounded belong to undocumented residents who, according to state law, are not allowed to obtain a state issued driver’s license.
Cedillo is a long-time proponent of allowing undocumented immigrants under certain conditions, including criminal background checks, passing driving tests, and showing proof of auto insurance, to receive a driver’s license, and has for several years introduced legislation, which Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has vetoed.
Mayor Jennifer Rodriguez told EGP that the city is not trying to go around the law, adding that the tickets will still have to be paid. She said the issue goes beyond politics.
“It breaks my heart to see a member of our community getting his or her car towed when he is trying to get to work or is using that car to work,” she said. “Overall, the city council thought about the humanity part of it,” added Rodriguez.
Good afternoon Jack,
This is you "goose-steppin" bud Red Spot here. I do seem to remember a certain President and his allies on left and "business center". getting a can of "whoop ass' when their veiled attempt at Amnesty got canned in Congress.
Geez, Red, I can't quite remember!
Are you talking about when Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens?
No, no, that went through...
Painful flashback Jack, but wrong. try more recent.
Simi Valley???? What's next, a church bombing. Maybe these bigotted blowhards can find a couple of little girls to kill. What does it matter, they want their families split anyway.
More recent flashbacks involve G Spot dressed in a sheet, holding a torch and burning a cross.
2:33 = Aztlanista lefty
I love how the same state and local government asshats (eg, Nunez, Villar, Cedillo) that tell us we need to spend our taxes on illegals and give them various new privileges are the same ones that tell us "immigration is a federal issue."
"But many business leaders believe immigration is a federal issue and not one to be solved at the state level.
"The solution in addressing this national problem is not state-by-state immigration law but comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level," said Jessica Pacheco, senior vice president of public affairs for the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry."
3:36, good thing you're not following McCain on the issue.
The religious left is even scarier than the religous right.
Good afternoon Mayor,
How is the Jet Lag ??
Dudes...is it me or are the ESL classes helping Red Spot?
You're writing skills have improved dramatically.
Or are you just dictating now?
As far as billing the churches - good idea. But I have a feeling that that bill is going to get thrown out.
Practice makes for better disertations.
Yes, Mayor Sam, and the religious right still doesn't get that Jesus was a leftist!
Wrong again, Jack! Jesus wasn't leftist; He just happened to be the Son of God - but we don't need to get into a theological discussion here. This is a political blog, not a religious one!
Remember "MRS. BILL CLINTON" touting Michael Learner "POLITICS OF MEANING" ?
JACK, you are tumbling inthe abyss of delusion.
Excellent!! Glad to see that - long overdue to bill these "churches" - when are they going to have their 501(c)3 status yanked for their political involvement??
And I am not surprised to hear that JackHoff "thinks" Jesus was a "leftist" but, quite to the contrary, He was HIGHLY selective.
5:18; Theology aside, Jesus was politically to the left of Rome simply because he was perceived as a threat to the status quo.
5:24; It's never too early in the campaign for right wing extremists to blame "the liberals," is it? Your work is really cut out for you this time! Try starting with, uh, Jimmy Carter...
6:41: By your post, we already know you have no clue as to the definition of tax exempt status for a church. But lemme guess, next you're going to tell us that "Jesus wasn't a Jew," right?
See y'all at the Gaither gathering!
Jack, Jesus wasn't a political leftie because he refused to get involved in politics at all.
Remember, "give unto Rome what is Rome's, unto God, what is God's?"
He refused to get drawn into the issue of taxation and rebellion over matters here on the earth. So he would NOT have taken in illegals against the law -- he never had a temple or church of bricks and mortar, didn't pay taxes or get exemption from them, and never had any money, either.
The government tried to provoke him into breaking the law, but he wouldn't. That's what drove them nuts. If someone illegal had come to him, he might have helped hide him in the desert, but not in some tax-exempt church subject to law.
At your service,
Pastor Bob
Jack needs some "intervention".
First, In todays terms, Jesus would labeled a "RELIGIOUS RIGHT WACKO" by you friends at MoveOn.org .
Second, Jimmy Carter is the "asterik" of 20th Century Presidents. Anymore Anti-Semetic rants from "JIMMA" lately ?
Third, maybe you can list your post as a lost on your taxes.
Time to reserve your spot at the next "DAILY KOOK" convention in Vegas.
lol, "Pastor Bob," the standard line is "Render unto Caesar..." -- it's a classic. I'm surprised you didn't just lay that one out for us.
Strike One.
Secondly, Jesus was a rabbi, so, yes, he did preach in the temple.
Strike Two.
Thirdly, you forget your political history of who the Samaritans actually were and the reason why Jesus made the Samaritan "the good one." Time to review the story, "pastor."
Not impressed with your credentials, sir.
One more thing, Pastor Bob, how about instead of being "at my service," you simply ATTEND a service every once in a while?
You might learn something.
Jack, what do the Samaritans have to do with anything under discussion? And whether one calls Jesus's place of teaching a temple or church is irrelevant, it was "my father's house" to him. What was your other point? Doesn't matter.
You don't have a point.
Jimmy Carter is your inspiration for the religious life, is he? Love the way old Jimmy bolstered the reputation of that nice dictator in Romania, Couseascou, who impoverished his people and ethnic groups criminals, bulldozed their villages and jailed their pastors to "assimilate" them.
But he smiled at Jimmy's big teeth a lot. Jimmy didn't even mind old C's habit of stripping the furniture and light fixtures from hotel rooms and official guest quarters after a state visit. Even dictators have to live, no?
Jimmy, who boycotted the Russian Olympics to make a point about wheat. Jimmy, who flubbed the Iran rescue. Jimmy, whose highest calling in life is painting houses for Habitat, and writing articles for Playboy about "lust in my heart."
Jack, are you repressing "lust in your heart" and painting houses for the poor, while making inane pronouncements on foreign affairs?
I'm teaching a class at Fuller called "Religion and Politics for the Sexually Repressed," in the Spirit of Jimmy Carter." Spaces still available.
Or, you might want to guest lecture?
Jack,
Carter did get tough once on terrorism. Remember the Rabbit ??
Well, it seems like the right wing extremists HAVE taken my advice...
(ref. pt. 2 6:56p)
Desperate times indeed, eh?
As Jack Webb said,
"ONLY THE FACTS, MAME"
Jack Webb was in a musical?
Jack, the more you try to clarify, the more you obfuscate, even cross- referencing points addressed to you.
Time Out.
Today's Clowncil would call Jack Webb a "Black Face, Racist Cop".
Can't respond right now anyway.
Still laughing my ass off about "Only the facts, Mame."
Jerry Herman would be proud.
Go ahead, make my day, Jack...
I suppose with the current technology of today, Jack Webb would have probably said, "Just the fax, ma'am!"
Let's go back to your argument that illegal immigration should be enforced by Washington D.C.
I imagine that the next thing you'll argue is that immigration enforcement is a Federal problem. Is that your opinion, Jack?
Jack,
have you been baring "witness" with Pastor Bob ? What I "witness" is the deconstruction of your takes.
BTW, waiting for your immigration responce.
Red Spot, I don't think Jack's going to show up. He's probably watching "Beauty and the Geek," Grey's Anatomy," or some such nonsense.
Or maybe he fell asleep at his keyboard?
Geez, you guys are lazy.
Now I have to do research for you, too?
Okay, since you're all into "Render unto Caesar," (or in your words "Uh, give God his God stuff and I'll make up the rest...").
Q. If an immigrant seeks legal status in this country, to what authority do they turn in their paperwork?
Simi Valley City Council?
Q. Who then approves that paperwork for (listen closely) U.S. Citizenship?
"Pastor" Bob?
Or SpongeBob?
Keep guessing.
He should be listening to Kevin James on KRLA AM 870.
JACK!!! Quit acting like a typical liberal! Don't change the subject! Answer my question!
Is it your opinion that immigration enforcement is a Federal problem?
Jack,
I believe that the Congress passed legislation cutting off certain forms of funding if a city declared themself a "Sanctuary City". That said, how much money will Villaraigosa cost the city in funding ? Don't crack up on us. We need a "whipping post" to snap out a take.
You ought to do a column called, "Ask Jack," or "Tell Jack," like the L A Weekly's "Ask A Mexican."
Not that anyone listens to Jack. But that's the point.
Jack, don't get me confused with anon 9:44! I'm anon 8:53, 9:19, and 9:35.
"ASK JACK"
Yes, that can be an idea if Jack's liberal friends try to impose a "FAIRNESS IN BLOGGING ACT".
Red Spot, I believe the House passed that bill by a better than 50 vote margin. I haven't heard of any action by the Senate; if you have more recent information, please give me an update.
Anon 9:53
Mr. Spot,
I wish to correct the record, that Jack Hoff has not been "baring" witness with me. We don't do that kind of thing at my ministry.
Lust in the heart, repression, is as far as we go and our specialty.
Pastor Bob
anon 9:53 is getting bored waiting for Jack's response to the question, and has no plans to answer Jack's "subject change questions." Still drumming fingers; thinks Jack is a slow typist, or is watching Channel 9 news.
Hmmm... I guess I'll call it a day. Don't look around for me after tomorrow on this time frame, Red Spot, my calendar has filled up dramatically since yesterday.
Since when does a State Legislator, Senator Gil Cedillo, District 22-Los Angeles, have dual status to legislate and also give advice on what to do if your car is impounded? Visit Cedillo’s website and see for yourself.
What To Do If Pulled Over Without a Valid Driver’s License:
1. Immediately pull over and park in a legal and safe location.
2. Be cooperative, polite and courteous with the officer.
3. Ask the officer if you can have a licensed driver pick up the vehicle.
4. You may be given a ticket for driving without a license.
What To Do If Your Car Is Towed:
1. You have the right to a hearing on the impoundment [CVC Section 14602.6(b)]. Contact the law enforcement agency that ordered the impoundment immediately by phone, letter or in person to request a hearing.
2. Unless the impounding agency notifies the legal owner of the vehicle within 2 working days via certified mail, the owner can not be charged for more that 15 days storage and towing fees [CVC Section 14602.6(a)(2)].
3. You may have the right to legal recourse. The city, county or state may be liable for violating your constitutional rights. Seek legal counsel.
Stand corrected Pastor Bob.
Maybe we should call off the "BLOGBANG" on Jack for the night. Jack, where you are in cyberspace, you have tonight to read your "takes" from "MOVE OFF.ORF" and the "DAILY KOOK". Until your "WHIPPING POSTS" reappear. Good Night and Liberal Sour Dreams.
Okay, what have we learned today?
Pastor Bob says that Jesus would have checked the papers of an illegal immigrant before helping him hide out in the desert.
Mention Jimmy Carter as a joke and the right wing extremists don't get it.
Typical right wing extremists need to call anyone who disagrees with them a "liberal." It makes them feel safe -- and relevant -- of which they are neither.
When right wing extremists are incapable of critical thinking, they criticize everyone else's thinking by saying "you don't have a point."
Jesus was so HIGHLY selective that he hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. (oh, oops, that point wasn't made, but sometimes ya gotta spell it out for the right wing extremists).
Just like the dolts who didn't understand "Render unto Caesar..." 2,000 years ago, right wing extremists don't understand federal jurisdiction and the obvious implication that if one applies for citizenship to a federal entity, then, indeed, that federal entity holds jurisdiction. No, due to RWE obtuseness, they need to keep demanding an answer. Which makes them feel safe and relevant, which, of course...
I like the idea of being called a "whipping post," because all I had to do was stand there while you guys made a bloody mess of yourselves trying to hit me. (Not exactly what a "whipping post" is for, but I'm too tired to explain that term to you guys also.)
Okay guys, school's out for tonight. You may go back to your Cartoon Network program.
Jack,
To clarify, your "MISINFORM POST" take a "WHIPPIN OF CORRECTION" from the assemble cast of like-minded thinkers. Thus your new "BLOGGIN PLEDGE NAME", "WHIPPING POST". Feel free to rejoin us tomorrow. Until then, this is "GOOSE STEPPIN" bloggin commentator "BLOGGIN OUT"
RED SPOT
Jack, Pastor Bob didn't say he'd check an illegal's papers before helping him hide out in the desert.
He said he wouldn't help an illegal hide out in a bricks and mortar religious institution, because that was under state jurisdiction, in terms of paying taxes pursuant to keeping religion separate from politics.
When a city does, or does not, choose to become a "sanctuary city" and violate the law, is the right of that city's majority to decide.
Simi seems to be reflecting that city's majority, while L A does not (at least not if you exclude the illegals themselves).
Yes, the feds should be setting and enforcing ICE policy, and they've done so. Should they be reimbursing cities for the illegals they're forcing them to deal with?
Yes. Is it hypocritical to let in the illegals, then let each city fend for itself on what to do with them? Yes.
But when a city declares itself a sanctuary city, it knowingly defies what laws there are and loses what funds are available in many instances, hence hurting the people who didn't approve of the policies in the first place. When a church does that, it knowingly crosses the line from religion to state, and loses the benefits due strictly religious institutions.
What's this obsession with "render" versus give, or whatever works? Did you have an anal religious upbringing, which leads to your reverence for Grinnin' Jimminy?
Or you making fun of him, hard to tell.
We accept all kinds of souls here, but we follow the law or do our thing in the desert.
Rest your weary soul now, Jack. May the blessings be upon ye.
Chaplain Jane
(Associate of Pastor Bob)
As is typical of one who is liberal-left, Jack never answered my question, "Is it your opinion that immigration enforcement is a Federal problem?"
Instead, he chose to dance, dodge, and weave around the question just as anyone who doesn't want to answer a specific question would do. He probably "thinks" he answered my question; he didn't.
Jack! Either answer my question to the best of your ability (sadly limited, IMHO), or state your unwillingness to answer said question by stating, "I decline to answer." Either way, you lose.
Now go back to smoking the medical marijuana you bought from your local pusher, giggle and laugh that you've managed to bamboozle your local conservative right-wingers, and fantasize that you're the best man for the job of spokesman for the liberal left... but you've still not answered the question I've posed to you.
****Jack Hoff****
Still my favorite poster. The most logical person here.
You handle yourself well with logic and just confuse the hell out of the redneck, immigrant hating, Republicans here.
They can't stand it because they aren't bright enough to respond intelligently to your thoughts.
Jack is about as bright as a burnt-out bulb.
Good for Ted and David the goliath's taking on city hall. We support your cause. Its about time someone had the guts to state the truth and keep it in our charter.
ELECTED AND APPOINTED CITY OFFICIALS; COMPLIANCE WITH LAWS OF UNITED STATES.
INITIATIVE CHARTER AMENDMENT.
The proposed City Charter amendment prohibits elected and appointed City officials from adopting any ordinance, policy, procedure and /or practice that violates the laws of the United States, including but not limited to federal immigration law.
The proposed City Charter amendment also requires rescission of all existing ordinances, policies and procedures that are counterproductive to and violate the laws of the United States.
The proposed City Charter amendment also provides that law enforcement officials shall not be prohibited, penalized or discouraged from investigating and reporting violations of federal immigration law.
The proposed City Charter amendment provides that any elected or appointed City official who willfully violates, obstructs and/or impedes the implementation and/or enforcement of this amendment will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and will be required to resign.
"You may have the right to legal recourse. The city, county or state may be liable for violating your constitutional rights. Seek legal counsel.
September 20, 2007 10:19 PM"
YOU HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS UNLESS YOU ARE A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE CONSTITUTION.
ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE NO CONSTITUTION RIGHTS IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Illegal Aliens who are citizens of the Unites States of Mexico, have constitution rights in MEXICO.
Didn't you guys learn this in the civics classes?
May I suggest if you are trying to make a point and actually wish to debate a "know" blogger such as Jack Hoff come up with a moniker. Jack Hoff also the courage to have all his previous comments on “record”, and all his comments are available review. The monikers are free and will not be taxed by either the federal, state or city governments.
It is just stupid for somebody to say I am 3:45, 4:33, 6:56, 7:56 and 8:33. Come up with a name and stick to it, otherwise you come across as village idiots screaming from the peanut gallery.
Mr. Anony-Mouse
Have it your way, mister mouse - or shall I say Mister Mousy Tongue?
He (Jack) has still not answered my question. He still wishes to dodge and weave as if he were playing on the freeway.
Anyone on the blog who says I (or others) have not answered Jack's question seems to have forgotten that I asked my question of him FIRST; I, therefore am exercising my right to have my question directly answered by Jack. I have not, according to Congressional rules, or any other rules, yielded the floor until I say I have; I have not yielded the floor to Jack.
Now Jack, ANSWER MY QUESTION - IMMEDIATELY - unless you give the decline to state answer as I've outlined in a previous comment.
I'm waiting, and am prepared to wait until Antarctica becomes a tropical paradise.
Since I have other things to do today, I shall return in a few hours.
Mr. Foster, you have me at a disadvantage because I now feel sorry for you.
My best suggestion for you is to print out this thread, take it to someone you trust, and have them explain it to you in terms you can comprehend.
In the meantime, try not to have a stroke.
And, in the future, please try harder not to be such a bully as it is only an injustice to the memory of the real Stephen C. Foster.
Best of luck to you.
"WHIPPING POST" in the house.
Jack, I proudly wear the name of my forbear: the first American mayor of our city. Look up the brief description of my ancestor's terms of office some time, and find out what he did.
It's a pity our nation has outlawed dueling. Insofar as calling me a bully, I would have taken that as a challenge, and under the rules of dueling, I would have the choice of weapons. However, also under the rules of dueling, each is given the opportunity to apologize to the other on the field of honor.
On of your problems Jack, is that you have been blinded by the left-wing, which holds the position that no matter what the issue, the United States is in the wrong. A century ago, a position such as that would be considered treasonable, and I hold that view today.
Another problem you have is that if you have no ready answer, you will take to calling someone a bully and sarcastically state you pity that individual. Actually, the reverse should be true: I should pity you! You laughed when someone who, upon trying to quote the Bible, got it mixed up. I did not laugh, for that can become a curse upon the individual who laughed.
Now I shall cite a passage, which I believe directly addresses you: "They are blind, yet they claim to see, and so their guilt remains.".
I shall take it then, that you have no answer to my question, and so you decline to answer. I shall see you again on a different thread, and we can bash each other over some other issue, IF you wish to do so. If not, that's all right with me too.
Bully, indeed!
P.S.: If you wish to tender your apology to me, do so... I shall accept your apology.
SCF
September 21, 2007 7:35 AM
Good assessment.
It appears Gil Cedillo needs to reevaluate his priorities!
This being Sunday and all, I'm hoping that "Pastor Bob" and "Chaplain Jane" could preach on this reading from Matthew 25;
"Then He will also say to those on His left, Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
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