Prop H8: what you can do about it (or 'What's really wrong with this picture?')
Homosexuality is not abnormal or illogical. Homophobia IS.
'Phobia: An intense, abnormal, or illogical fear of a specified thing.' - Answers.com
For the cause:
To be more specific, it was 'hypocritical, recently-polygamist so-called Latter Day Saints' who stole our rights.
For your consideration:
Over the last two decades, research findings have pointed to disproportionately high rates of suicidal behavior among LGBT adolescents and young adults. Suicide attempts in this population have been linked to a variety of factors including gender nonconformity, lack of support, family problems, violence/ victimization, early sexual debut and mental health problems, notably depression and substance abuse or dependency. How these factors converge to produce suicidal behavior among different groups of sexual minority youth, however, remains only partially understood.
- American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
For the children:
Overall, the belief that children of lesbian and gay parents suffer deficits in personal development has no empirical foundation.
- American Psychiatric Foundation
If there was never any discrimination against gays, would this even be a question? The same goes for any other minority group. Is it their behavior or lifestyle that marginalizes gay families or is it the reaction of society to that private behavior? The churches and some of their followers have been tormenting the gay community and their children for years and then complaining that gay couples put their children in harm's way by simply existing. Talk about rigging the system!
In fact, it is not we who stigmatize our children; outdated, contradictory religious dogma and those who choose to follow it and then claim 'faith-based' hate do that well enough already thank you very much. A transsexual friend of mine had her jaw shattered recently. Indeed, violent homophobia is justified in the minds of many, so why didn't we put a stop to it? Because an out-of-state church bought enough votes to perpetuate it?
Yes, because gay families are so abnormal. See? We're a bunch of perverted freaks. Taking walks on the beach, loving our families, and enjoying the simple things in life. We should be exterminated for our insolence, 'dontchaknow?'
SMS
Posted by Sarah Michelle Spinosa @ 11/11/2008 01:02:00 PM
14 Comments:
I don't think gays and lesbians need to hate on Mormons to get civil rights.
We have to look at ALL groups that supported Prop 8 - the Catholics, the Mormons, Evangelicals, 70% of African Americans, 71% of Latinos, 49% of whites and EDUCATE ALL OF THEM!
If you go to war with the Mormon Church you won't win any converts. The church didn't fund Yes on 8. Their members did. This is dangerous ground here.
I would focus the debate on how devastating Prop 8 is to gay families and how they deserve civil rights.
The Civil Rights movement (at least the maintstream part) didn't win converts by hating on Whitey. It did it by talking about freedom for ALL of us.
That's what the Gay Rights movement needs to emulate. It needs a Martin Luther King, not a bunch of angry, screaming, hateful folks who are proving themselves to be no better than the haters.
Michael -
Stop being so wishy-washy. Mormoms hate gays. They teach that we're an abomination and it empowers them when they oppress us. It was their ideas and money that put this travesty on the ballot. Please, please get your head out of your ass so that you can see the clearly drawn battle lines.
And for the record, the Latino vote was a LOT closer than that. Stop defending the bad guys. We don't tell them how to run their church, so they shouldn't tell us how to run our lives.
We're not looking for converts. How do you convert the entrenched? That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be ashamed of themselves.
SMS
I think it's fine to start with the Mormons. After all, these were the people who were so persecuted for their own way of living, they had to move to their own state...
It's a good call, in my book.
Anonymous: 'If reports are correct, authorities in the LDS church urged members to donate to the Yes on 8 campaign -- including from out of state. If reports are correct, the resulting donations exceeded $20 million, again much of it from out of state.
I don't agree with attacks on Mormons that incorporate religious bigotry (such a the attacks deriding various elements of LDS theology). But if any group -- religious, social, or otherwise -- decides to get involved in a controversial social issue by urging its members to fund an initiative on that issue, that group is open to criticism and comment.
If polygamy were still legal in Utah, and still countenanced by the Mormon church, and if Southern Baptists flooded Utah with money to pass an anti-polygamy initiative, do you think that for even a moment the Mormons would refrain from calling out the Baptists for a targeted anti-Mormon attack?'
The man on the moon could have donated a billion dollars but it wouldn't make a dimes worth of difference if every on the Earth voted that way.
These protests are turning off a lot of people who were already on the bus. It's fine to protest those who didn't support it but you have to be consistent. Lets see some protests out in front of First AME, the Knights of Columbus, Mosques, Orthodox Jewish Synagogues.
Cause if you just go after the Mormons, spread a lot of mistruths about them, etc. it's going to sink the movement. It will appear this is not about civil rights but liberalism and political correctness.
20% of us Republicans put our asses on the line to vote for this because we know that these kinds of rights fall under true conservative principle. Now we got to take shit from both the Repugs AND the liberals?
You can't fight hate with hate.
Michael -
I agree that we should go after all of these groups but it's not prudent. We all know who the most egregious proponents were.
Protesting is hateful now? You're right that you can't fight hate with hate, but you're wrong because that's not what's happening here. Protests are not hateful. Prop 8 is. Stop trying to play mediator. People who have their civil rights should desire to share them with everyone. Otherwise they're just being hateful (and selfish) themselves, aren't they? It's not like they have to make any sacrifices to share despite their perpetual lies to the contrary.
SMS
Gotta go with SMS on this one.
Also, logistically, there are only so many protesters to go around, at least the ones willing to show up.
Focus on the big dog for max impact. Take him down and the puppies will scatter.
Oh dear. You guys are making it hard for me to convert Republicans to the cause.
But don't forget the Mormons had like what 200,000 votes? Be careful guys you're messing things up.
200,000 votes and over $25 mil summoned up by the Church to ramrod this Prop.
It's not about the # of votes from Mormons.
Oh no. It's all about the votes. You've got to win over the no voters.
I hear Obama is close to changing his position on gay marriage. That could help.
You expect this crap from the Catholic church, who uses tyranny effectively to control their populace. 'Obey all Catholic doctrine, OR ELSE. No exceptions.'
For a group with a history of persecution like the Mormons to push hate-legislation is beyond hypocrisy -- it's collective insanity. They need to be smacked around for this at least. And a huge spotlight needs to be trained on them as financial backers of hate.
Obama's going to change his position. Well since Yes on 8 lied and said he was a backer, does that mean he's going to be AGAINST same-sex marriage?
We're not converting any Republicans? Again with the conversions. Bigots don't need to convert; they won't. They simply need to be shamed or doubtful enough on the issue to abstain from arguing the issue.
SMS
No on Prop 8 just sent me this bullshit:
“We achieve nothing if we isolate the people who did not stand with us in this fight. We only further divide our state if we attempt to blame people of faith, African American voters, rural communities and others for this loss. We know people of all faiths, races and backgrounds stand with us in our fight to end discrimination, and will continue to do so. Now more than ever it is critical that we work together and respect our differences that make us a diverse and unique society. Only with that understanding will we achieve justice and equality for all.”
I don't think anybody is BLAMING African-Americans for Prop 8. We're just upset that their community ironically doesn't seem to see the value of equal rights, and going after the Mormon and other faiths is a 100% correct strategy since, once again, it's their money that pushed their agenda through. The Yes on 8 side had to lie to convince people that a ban on gay marriage is what GOD wants.
First of all, it's going to take a GREATER amount of time, money and energy to convince these people of what they've done. It's wasteful since people were already so quick to believe the Mormon scare tactics which successfully played on faith-based people's already default position that homosexuality is immoral. Good luck trying to change their minds.
Secondly, by pandering to religious groups, we cede MORE civic power to the religious right, not less. We are admitting that they should be able to control the civil rights of others, just not ours. Another losing argument. The churches need to be REMOVED from politics, not brought front-and-center into the conversation.
Another miscalculation by No on 8. Nice job, guys. You run a hell of a campaign, ignoring thousands of years of theocratic 'fact' and begging, 'please don't take our rights away. Pretty please?'
Besides, division of the electorate was THEIR strategy. It's not our fault, it's theirs, so why is No on Prop 8 internalizing it? I will NEVER apologize for being pro-civil rights.
SMS
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