Free Speech is not Pretty
There's probably nothing more offensive than the idea of an African-American man or anyone else showing up to a City Council meeting dressed as a member of the Ku Klux Klan as perennial gadfly Mike Hunt did recently. Well there is one thing more offensive - trying to ban an African-American man or anyone else coming to a City Council meeting dressed as a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Free speech is not pretty - and neither are most gadflies and Council members - but its sacrosanct.That's what the ACLU had to stand up for - as distasteful as it was to them and the Jewish attorney who led the case - when they supported the rights of racist, anti-Semitic Nazis to march in Skokie, Illiniois.
"Free speech is not pretty - and neither are most gadflies and Council members."
You can see how many City Clowncil members, City Attorneys and police officers it takes to figure out if they can kick Mike out of the meeting by clicking here.
Blogging dum-dums and City Hall spinners are aghast when Zuma Dogg and other protesters wear masks to LA City Council Meetings. However Daily News readers are more appalled at the thought of the City Clowncil wasting time on the issue and limiting free speech, no matter how annoying or offensive one may find it.
Labels: free speech, gadflies, Los Angeles City Council, los angeles politics, mike hunt
Posted by Mayor Sam @ 12/19/2007 12:49:00 AM
38 Comments:
Why are you dredging this up again?
Nothing better to do in the rain with all that methane that builds up in your overnight?
And no the Daily News doesn't show people are more appalled at the idea of banning than at the fools who did that stuff and waste time.
There's Walter Moore piping up, zuma provides about half the posts and attacks against people, and there are a couple of other overt racists and whackos defending their right to be racist and offensive.
And the Skokie Nazis didn't march during public comment time at City Hall. Misusing city resources and public comment time is another issue.
One person says they should just ban Dowd for telling Garcetti to F-k off and shut up, permanently, and limit all their time to maybe once a month.
When a few mental cases with nothing better to do than push the limits of freedom of speech and civility keep at it, everyone loses.
You Sam lose any credibility you've ever had supporting this debasement of our freedoms and institutions.
No I'm not a third floor spinner, I'm normally a libertarian, but tht requires self-discipline if you want to keep laws and government out of your face. Something these nutcases don't understand because they all have some kind of psychosis that insulates them from reality and makes them feel hugely self-important. They need mental treatment, which must be why they're out on the streets in the first place.
Look at that Higby: You got Jim Alger to wake up and post.
Not Jim, try again. He does not post on this blog. Just someone whose sense of odor has been ranked by Dave Elliott.
If 1:20 is correct then someone
better watch those 3am posts or your union boss may find out that you are stirring it up here again.
And maybe that little secret will slip out that a certain someone helped you keep quiet.
You know, the one that you were relieved never made it to the blogs.
For once you have the power. It's up to you. We'll be watching.
This is the only notice. Next time the post flys.
'And the Skokie Nazis didn't march during public comment time at City Hall."
The Nazis marched in Pasadena a few months before they went to Skokie. I had friends whose parents had been in concentration camps. When the Skoki Mayor started having problems with them, some one from northeast LA called The Skoki Mayor's Office and told them that "under Federal law a person may not wear the "full" dress of an army the United States had defeated." They were not allowed to march. If they did they would be charged with Federal incarceration. No buttons, insignia, etc. It forced the Nazi to go to the brown shirts and black uniform without insignia and make it fidderent enough to pass the Federal law. It took the Nazis a long time to figure out what uniform they could use to intemidate people.
As a believer of free speach, I defended the Nazi's right to march. I also worked to help to find a way to stop them from marching within the confines of the law.
Thats the American way.
It's also my right to talk about the lazy dirt mexicans who live in Los Angeles. I wish we could get rid of all the mexican and porch-monkeys, and make California a nice place to live. I wish the KKK were here in full force to drive out the porch-monkeys and mexicans who ruin our city and country.
The jews should also be forced out, they have corrupted our banking industry.
HEY who the hell deleted my post??
at Venice the free speech IS pretty. because its subtle and its incorporated into some kind of art.
when they take that away illegally, then the only way to make the point is to hammer it.
naturally Hunt and Dowd were roadblocked on all the regular avenues of communication, so the protest went extreme.
here's the funny bit, there'll be 20 klans in there if the city continues to defy the constitution of the United States.
and if Matt Dowd knew nothing about rights, how did he get away with everything to date??? because its all legal, that's why.
legal.
and we thank mayor sam for his absolute true understanding of the intent of the Bill of Rights: especially when we DON'T LIKE the person or group is EXACTLY why the protection exists.
because without it the government just gets rid of everyone it doesn't 'like'
get it??
because one day, soon, they're not gonna like something youre doing, and you'll be in our shoes.
its clear MS didn't want to enter the Michael Hunt issue, and I applaud his focus on the real issue: What IS protected in the USA.
many of you are now complacent and take your rights for granted. Hunt is doing you a favor by proving that SOME still exist, although governments are still blurring the line constantly in an effort to control you.
I have nothing to say.
ABCNEWSWASHPOST POLL:
Iowa: Obama 33%, Clinton 29%, Edwards 20%...
You have a strange confusion going on that mingles "free speech" with self-aggrandizing performance (f)art.
You have a right to weigh in on items dealing with the powers and responsibilities of government, but the people who's job it is to carry out those responsibilities have both a right and responsibility to see to it that it's done it a reasonable and respectful manner.
You can also vote as a citizen, but if you scrawl the name of your candidate choice in fecal matter on the side of the polling booth, that doesn't mean anyone has to count it a valid vote.
(Just listen to Matt Dowd's own words yesterday . . . not "I'm here to address city council about an urgent matter" but "I'm here to APPEAR on Ch. 35."
Buy your own damn station, or pay for airtime, irresponsible human dreck.
I said hello to Jim this morning and one of you burros deleted it! So much for free speech!
Mayor Sam is right. You don't get to pick and choose. I think Matt Dowd is an idiot. He has however a constitutional right to be an idiot. He also has a right to make his view point known at the Council and on Ch 35. There's lots of other political speech, ideas, whatever that some people would find offensive that you don't. We don't get to pick and choose. Like MS says, it's ugly sometimes but it works.
There is a bottom line to freedom of speech -- it can't interfere with the business of the people. That's why Lincoln put the Maryland Legislature in jail for a bit during the Civil War. Freedom of Speech is not an absolute.
If Mike Hunt's next move is to relieve himself during public testimony, will Mayor Sam also support that as free speech?
Frankly, I'd be inclined to vote against any elected who tolerates wasting the people's time in the name of this kind of "free speech."
Two men, one goal... the pure satisfaction that can come only from the integration of purpose and pleasure. These two brothers in spirit share one simple passion; the thrill of victory. Witness the culmination of years of dedication, research, and trial and error toward one end. Two approaches, one destiny...Two for the Money. Jesse Jackson and Al sharpton, here to screw you.
10:35
And the MORE ugly we allow it to get, the less people with legitimate grievances will want to take part.
What exactly is Matt Dowd's point, for example.
Yesterday he spoke for two minutes and it basically boiled down to this:
I'm back
I'm on TV
I'm not going away
You've really ticked me (and 'Venice") off.
Grrr!
I've heard WWF Smackdown wrestlers deliver more "pithy" political points of view, from center ring.
BULLLLL-shit that's political "free speech" - that's nothing more than idiotic taunting of people on council that he knows can't legally respond to him.
What's annother word for that?
Cowardice!
When you poke sticks at a chained and muzzled dog that you know could set you straight in about 3 seconds, you're not some kind of f-ing hero. Stop defending insanity and calling it "creative thinking."
to all those who said Hunt Dowd and Dogg 'wrecked public comment...' or whatever it was.
check lacity.org today.
its packed, and america is speaking.
tons of them.
this office chooses to believe the outlaws inspire free speech, as witnessed right here in this thread.
the biggest fools though are those who buy into our 'antics' as though they're real. its activism on the bottom line.
translation: we get off our fat ass and fight.
live online
If the combine IQ of those three was in pennies, you couldn't buy a two-dollar scratcher.
You can barely see a "public comment" period on CH. 35 anymore where two-thirds of the "speakers" don't have at least one 72-hour-hold on their record . . . this year.
I might be crazy, but I laughed for a whole minute. I love the fact that someone would "waste" the Council's precious time. As if they give a flying fuck what happens to any of their constituents. Seriously. I'm glad to see them taunted. Boo hoo. Poor City Councilmembers.
They don't deserve our respect. We don't get theirs and they don't get ours. They set it up that way, not the people who show disrespect toward them.
I suppose we should just let them go and respectfully okay every bad development in the City of Los Angeles. That is their real job, after all - not listening to the people who vote for them.
Maybe they're wasting MY time by causing me to take off work and drive downtown and listen to them discuss the rights of gays, the Iraq war, etc. just because. They have no reason except they are taking a stand.
Thanks for taking a stand Matt and Mike.
oh and thanks 11.07 for confirming that Matt's message got through loud and clear yesterday.
had you been following the whole story, two years ago Matt declared to council that Ch 35 would be his preferred medium of expression now, given that City had taken it away at Venice Beach (after first issuing Dowd a permit).
so yes, they'll all be back on Ch. 35 next year, you all know what that means. don't forget the word 'free' in freedom of expression.
obviously if Bill's 11th district office settle the Hunt problem before then, we'll avoid all the 'ugliness', as this blog so eloquently calls it.
furthermore, Hunt is not a gadfly, he doesn't do it for fun, he's an aggrieved black man, aggrieved at the hands of white city attorneys. the race card you think? yes. and here's how: the white city attorneys assumed that Hunt and other 'lowlife vendors' on the beach, would be incapable of mounting a successful challenge because of their limited education (an assumption because these guys were all african americans).no???
enter Matt Dowd, a white immigrant who cherished the freedoms fought for from the British, who saw through the whole charade, and promptly sought to even the fields by adding a white guy to the 'black side'.
so there, it was racist, they dismissed Hunt as incoherent, violent and uneducated (classic stereotypes that still prevail).
all the attorneys believed this beach ordinance was rock solid.
I guess Matt Dowd and Mike Hunt turned them all on their ear.
its Davids and Goliath. its in federal court and nobody ever once said that Hunt and Dowd lost.
gadflies? no. activists with a mission? yes.
watch it unfold, it'll be rivetting.
Ah huh huh huh, you said Mike Hunt! heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...
GO MATT!! GO HUNT!! GO GO GO!!!
Hey, I'm happy with a day without ZD!!
Keep it up, Sam.
Look up the United States Constitution online and compare it with the ACLU's version of the Constitution. You'll see a marked difference between the official one and the ACLU's copy.
nobody's gonna look that up.
you need to give people a link.
and since we're good people at the Matt Dowd press office, we're going to give Mayor Sam a free link in support of one of his pet issues
thank you in kind if you will.
Killer link. I love it.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1018/p09s01-coop.html?page=1
unfortunately though, the light bulb fight is over,
Congress took care of that one. maybe there'll be a few more outlaws soon defying that Act.
GREAT!!!! Its about time that City Council gets some of their own medicine. These councilmen stage so many of their community meetings where they limit free speech and control what the community is allowed to say. So they can say afterwards that they were just a handful that oppose their issue, but the majority supported it. I saw it happen with Councilman Reyes. He had a meeting with the community and his people asked the community to write their concerns on a card. The meeting was wasted making presentations that had nothing to do with the issue and at the last he read some of the cards and his answers were extra brief, because he had to leave.
Who gets to decide what "pretty" is?
Wait a minute. Stop the presses. You mean to tell me that you had a councilmember out and didn't get your questions answered? Who the heck do you think they work for? You? What are you - crazy? Are you delusional? Are you that Pollyanna-ish? What the heck do they need with the likes of you? What are you, some voter??
Pay to Play!
If you don't like it buy your own senator.
The man with the gavel gets to decide what's "pretty" and what's appropriate . . . elected by his peers in the horseshoe, all of which received the majority of the votes of the citizens who cared to cast them in their districts.
It's called "democracy" - look it up.
A majority vote of 15, elected by a majority of the hundreds of thousands who vote.
That, versus one or two rabid hockey pucks with little man grudges self-medicating with moments of taxpayer paid TV time.
Gavel wins.
Majority wins.
Ch. 35 viewers lose, mostly, until you shut the fuck up.
You want your own pedestal from which to overall the majority? Buy a GD island, and move there.
(Oh, and 11:50, the POINT was that Dowd's POINT didn't get across. In ANY way. Only the scattered, illiterate, pointless ranting -- not unlike what one hears in the alleys surrounding City Hall among the drug-addled and drunks -- got "across" to anyone, other than the pee-nut gallery that follows each other from one public comment period to another.)
12:18 pm,
no it's not.
3:21
Damn, I hate it when the "haters" are that literate. It's realy a drain on the mental resources of the blogging burros, such as they is, and leaves me with mental images of their one-watt noggins just smoking out of every orifice.
"I recommend that the Statue of 'Liberty' be supplemented by a Statue of 'Responsibility' on the west coast."
-- Concentration camp survivor Victor Frankl
IF Matt dowd and Mike Hunt had some type of credibility I'd be applauding them. But how can you respect two grown men who don't have a job and show up to meetings like a bunch of groupies everyday instead of being out looking for work?
Wish they would go to the county meetings since they think they're so cool and give them hell and stop wasting the public's time on nonsense.
....FOUR LOS ANGELES COUNTY EMPLOYEES who allegedly diverted special funds intended for foster kids into nights on the town for themselves and their pals — and whose names have been vociferously protected by the government for a month — are still on the job.
Department of Children and Family Services Director Patricia Ploehn, asked if the four are working, responded: “Yes.” The justification for this, echoed by two county lawyers and two DCFS public relations officials, is that in the huge county government, disciplinary action “takes time.”
“This is not Microsoft,” says DCFS communication director Louise Grasmehr. “You can’t just fire them.”
The story of the Gift Card Four — who used the gift cards to gain entry to the House of Blues and attend Wicked — enraged the public after local media reported on their behavior, which was unearthed during an audit of the DCFS.
The department is mandated to protect abused, neglected and abandoned children. But an audit in August found $1.25 million spent on a virtual mountain of toner cartridges — so many that the cartridges would expire before they could be used — and the needless purchase of more than 100 unused digital cameras whose purpose was murky at best.
dowd and hunt don't have a problem with the County
its with an illegal municipal code.
that's all.
give em credit for sticking on so long and still entertaining everybody
Talking about staged and controlled
Last year the Mayor set up six meeting for the Northeast Area and the Autry National Center. They were all staged and controlled so Autry could later say; the community wants a Community Center, they do not want a FIRST CLASS WORLD MUSEUM nor they want to preserve it as the FIRST MUSEUM IN LOS ANGELES(The Southwest Museum}. MAYOR VILLARAIGOSA HAS HELPED AUTRY SPREAD THAT LIE. He is a TRAITOR to our community giving the elitist Autry our museum.
"elected by his peers in the horseshoe, all of which received the majority of the votes of the citizens who cared to cast them in their districts.
It's called "democracy" - look it up."
What a farce. Democracy!! Does anyone really believe that the city uses our votes to determine elections? Look at your examples, in Orange County. Does anyone really believe that the Orange County Supervisor position, which was won by THREE votes, was not an attempted FIX (it's being contested)?
Both sides screwed up. Their operatives are incompetent.
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