Who Won? Who Lost? Who Cares?
I kept expecting Barbi Moosekiller to do a cartwheel and break out in a cheer of M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K at any moment!
And what was with that winking at the camera stuff?
Yea, yea...post away!
Labels: joe biden, sarah palin
Posted by Unknown @ 10/02/2008 08:15:00 PM
61 Comments:
Sarah's winking was no different than Biden's grinning at inappropriate minutes.
Okay, now it's time for Valley Dope to post 10 times and to make it seem like someone else.
If there are typos, then you know Malehandler has been at the lounge.
LA Times headline: "Palin, Biden hold their own in debate"
Daily News: ____________
Come on Daily News! It has been over for an hour and you don't even have a headline or photo on your website!
Big loser tonight is the Main Stream Media.
Palin ended up controling the playing field in the end.
Edge to Palin
As of 8:50 p.m.:
CBS poll:
76% Biden, 16% Palin, 8% undecided.
Yahoo poll:
49% Biden, 49% Palin, 2% undecided.
Fox News poll:
86% Palin, 12% Biden, 2% undecided.
The polls are all over the map! They can't all be right!
Michael Finnegan
CD-5
Did anyone catch her calling Joe
"Obiden?"
We know she meant you, joe.
Zuma has the MSNBC embed of the debate over at his site:
http://ladailyblog.com/
Zuma pronounces Biden the winner!
The whole thing sucked.
Check out the spin from the "LA OBAMA TIMES"
Sarah Palin may have helped herself in debate, but not McCain
Her steady peformance in the VP nominee showdown with Joe Biden seems unlikely to turn the momentum of a campaign that lately has been in Obama's favor.
By Noam N. Levey, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 3, 2008
WASHINGTON -- Sarah Palin entered the vice presidential debate in St. Louis tonight facing an electorate increasingly dubious about her readiness for the second-highest office in the nation.
With a relatively steady performance, the Alaska governor may have helped arrest voters' declining confidence in her candidacy since John McCain first put her on the Republican ticket five weeks ago.
That's all you got Red?:)
RS, that looks like some solid, straight-forward analysis to me. What problem do you have with it?
Why is 8:33 PM going to the LA Daily News for national news?
Apparently, McCain and Palin are mavericks who have consistently butted heads with their own party.
But they've also taken the fight to those foolhardy Democrats.
Which means that a vote for McCain-Palin is a vote for a ticket that can't get along with anybody.
From the Politico Web Site.
ST. LOUIS — Sarah Palin was supposed to fall off the stage at her vice presidential debate Thursday evening. Instead, she ended up dominating it.
She not only kept Joe Biden on the defensive for much of the debate, she not only repeatedly attacked Barack Obama, but she looked like she was enjoying herself while doing it.
She smiled. She faced the camera. She was warm. She was human. Gosh and golly, she even dropped a bunch of g’s.
“John McCain doesn’t tell one thing to one group and somethin’ else to another,” she said. “Those huge tax breaks aren’t comin’ to those huge multinational corporations.”
She went out of her way to talk in everyday terms, saying things like “I betcha” and “We have a heckuva opportunity to learn” and “darn right we need tax relief.”
Biden was somber, serious and knowledgeable. And he seemed to think that debates were about facts. He had a ton of them.
Criticizing John McCain’s health care plan, Biden said that McCain would tax health care and “then you’re going to have to replace a $12,000 — that’s the average cost of the plan you get through your employer; it costs $12,000 — you’re going to have to pay — replace $12,000 plan, because 20 million of you are going to be dropped. So you’re going to have to place — replace a $12,000 plan with a $5,000 check you’ve just given to the insurance company.”
Got that?
Palin was a lot more direct in her attacks on Obama and a lot more simple. Criticizing Obama for saying he would meet with some foreign leaders who are hostile to the United States, Palin said: “Some of these dictators hate America and what we stand for. They cannot be met with. That is beyond bad judgment. That is dangerous.”
She also said: “An issue like that taken up by a presidential candidate goes beyond naiveté and goes beyond poor judgment.”
Sarah Palin accusing Barack Obama of being naïve? Yep. And she was unabashed about it. And so what if Joe Biden has been in the Senate approximately forever and knows a lot more about a lot more stuff than she does? She doesn’t care.
“You recently said paying taxes is patriotic,” she said to Biden. “In middle-class America, where I have been all my life, that is not considered patriotic.”
True, a lot of her statements were of the fortune cookie variety. “At end of day,” she said, “if we are all working together for the greater good, it is going to be OK.”
But a lot of people like fortune cookies. She said her strength to the ticket was “my connection to the heartland of America, being a mom, having a son going off to war, a mother of a special needs child.” She said there were times she and her husband sat around the kitchen table wondering how they were going to make it without health insurance.
This led Joe Biden to his most emotional — he appeared to choke up — and one of his most effective moments.
“Look, I understand what it is like to be a single parent, when my wife and child died,” Biden said. “I know what is like to raise two kids alone. I know what it is like to sit around that kitchen table.”
Then he said of Americans: “They are looking for help, they are not looking for more of the same.”
It might have been his best line of the evening.
Palin made some flubs. Talking about America’s financial crisis, she said, “It’s a toxic mess, really, on Main Street that’s affecting Wall Street.” Isn’t it the other way around? And she also got the name of a general wrong.
But if people thought she was going to look like a dumb bunny for 90 minutes, they were disappointed. She said what she wanted to say and she was so relaxed she even winked at one point. Really! An actual wink during a national debate when she said she was going to try to get John McCain to change his mind about not drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Do people care about such stuff? Should all that down-home talk and body language really count? Joe Biden doesn’t think so.
“Facts matter,” Biden said.
Yeah? In politics? Since when?
I've had 8 years of a president talking to me like we were drinking buddies at the trailer park. Now I'd like to have someone in that office who can return some dignity to it.
This country is facing serious problems and that requires a president and a president-in-waiting who can be serious in their approach. Governor Gosh and Golly is entertaining to a point.
Regarding Zuma: we all make mistakes in judgement.
Biden was factually inaccurate in his comments regarding the Constitution, and past voting records of all candidates including his own.
Palin nailed Biden hands down. If Biden expected to lecture a demure woman and overwhelm her, I'm sure he got quite a surprise. She was prepared, he wasn't as prepared as he could have been.
Biden looked as if he took a downer to calm his nerves, Palin looked as if she was ready to charge Hell with a pitcher full of water!
Governor Gosh and Golly!
Love it!
It's true, lately facts don't seem to matter much in politics. Perhaps that's a reason for the massive failures we've gotten from our government.
Maybe if people paid more attention to things like Joe Biden's facts and less attention to things like Sarah Palin's smile they would elect candidates that can actually help solve the many difficult problems we face, instead of making people wish for less government.
All the focus on her is a lost opportunity to focus on whatever you dislike about McCain.
Her own DEMOCRAT opponent in her last election to Governor is on the cable news saying positive things about her now. That he underestimated her.
If you don't like the Gosh & Golly part, and quite frankly, neither do I, you should keep in mind that there's a huge swatch of America who identifies with that.
Or you can ignore it and continue to lost the chance to focus on McCain.
If this woman gets four years in the White House under her belt, you can look forward to PRESIDENT Palin in 2012.
Oh boy now the Democrats are saying that Palin's accent is fake, that she doesn't normally talk folksy! Criminy!
Palin exceeded expectations, energized the Republican base and threw off the perceptions of her as some sort of cupcake created by Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson's edited pieces.
Biden too exceeded expectations in that he wasn't a barrel of gaffes but he was often angry, mean and looked frustrated because he didn't know how to respond to Palin.
However both Palin and Biden did a far better job debating than either Obama or McCain.
This is probably the most press Biden will get going forward, unless he once again says something stupid.
Well, maybe he will get some more press.
I saw Biden as wise and restrained, factual and passionate. Isn't it funny how we interpret the same event?
One more observation.... how well would it have gone over if Biden was winking at the camera?
932 is correct, Palin's opponent was at her party and supporting her.
My "New Deal Democrat Mom" and I watched the debate together and she came to the conclusion that the girl outdid the guy on center stage.
In the ene she control the debate ans shaped the flow of content.
Great job Sarah!!
Now let her loose on the electorate.
Just for grins I just checked in on Chris Matthews at msnbc…He looks like he is in real pain, he was literally blubbering…..poor thing. God, I don’t think I have ever heard or seen that much hate. Carrying that much hate around inside must be painful.
Yes Joe, for Biden that was restrained.
Joe b. - Biden factual???? Especially in relation to his misquoting Article I of the Constitution? Good God man, Biden's been in office for almost forever, and he doesn't remember what Article I of the Constitution references? He should at least be familiar with the Constitution, for heavens sake!
Higby:
Which Democrats are saying that Palin's accent is phony? Or is it one Democrat? Or is this something you're just making up?
From the "Clinton News Network"
(CNN) -- A national poll of people who watched the vice presidential debate Thursday night suggests that Democratic Sen. Joe Biden won, but also says Republican Gov. Sarah Palin exceeded expectations.
Poll respondents give Sen. Joe Biden the edge over Gov. Sarah Palin in ability to express views.
The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job.
But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent. Seventy percent said Biden was more of a typical politician.
Both candidates exceeded expectations -- 84 percent of the people polled said Palin did a better job than they expected, while 64 percent said Biden also exceeded expectations.
How Palin would perform had been a major issue for the Alaska governor, who had some well-publicized fumbles during interviews with CBS' Katie Couric leading up to the debate.
Respondents thought Biden was better at expressing his views, giving him 52 percent to Palin's 36 percent.
On the question of the candidates' qualifications to assume the presidency, 87 percent of those polled said Biden is qualified and 42 percent said Palin is qualified.
Don't Miss
Biden, Palin face off
Election Center 2008
Full debate transcript
The candidates sparred over which team would be the better agent of change, and Biden came out on top of that debate, with 53 percent of those polled giving the nod to the Delaware senator while 42 percent said Palin was more likely to bring change.
Respondents overwhelmingly said moderator Gwen Ifill was fair during the vice presidential debate, repudiating critics who said that Ifill, of PBS, would be biased because she is writing a book that includes Biden's running mate, Sen. Barack Obama.
Ninety-five percent of those polled said Ifill was fair.
The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.
Obama was selected as a winner over Republican Sen. John McCain in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll on the September 26 presidential debate.
Judging from the CNN poll Palin made inroads in tonights debate
Joe Biden's 14 Lies
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
“If you look at the roles that accents have played — Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton from the South, and whatever’s going on with (President George W.) Bush’s accent — atypical (accents) often get voted in,”
How many times did palin say
"Wall Street greed and Corruption" ?
Isn't it the republicans who are/were so enamored with free markets and didn't want to impose more regulations on Wall Street.
Now the republican party is transforming itself and want to control "Wall Street greed and Corruption" ?
I like Joe Biden just pointing out how bad the last 8 years of trickle down economics has been working. And we now have the largest national defecit in history under the republican adminstration which accuses the democrats of excessive spending.
If you want more of the same and are really, really stupid vote for McSame.
Palin didn't choke, which I was half expecting, so I give her credit for that, but Biden definitely won, as was expected.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The debate was pretty much meaningless. Neither crushed the other. Palin didn't start crying, and Biden didn't admit to being Tom LaBong's mentor.
These are just VP candidates, remember?
Regardless of how you felt about Palin in this debate she still has to overcome charges such as these about McCain in the new issue of Rolling Stone, "Make-Believe Maverick."
They write about how some others who were imprisoned in Hanoi with McCain feel that he dishonored the uniform.
A former prisonmate describes McCain now as "still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when we went in."
Former (Republican turned independent) senator Lincoln Chafee said he has been appalled at McCain's readiness to sacrifice principle for power.
All in all, a devastating mythbusting piece.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/
Given Biden's recent history of unforced errors and obvious gaffes, not to mention his tendency to overestimate his own intelligence and speak condescendingly to his opponents, There was perhaps a 10-percent chance he would meltdown, and instead, he put together a solid performance.
Joe had to leave us gaffing. "Bosniacs"
Do you wonder if Biden was standing there during that debate thinking he wished he could get a piece of that ass?
Have any of you ever banged Becca?
10:29, at least he didn't blurt out that thought... think of how embarrassing that would have been to the Obama camp!
Still, it would have made for some great monologues on Letterman and Leno. A thought like that, however, are better left both unsaid and unthought.
10:38 - don't you mean baracka?
CNN reports that a full 86% thought Palin did better than they expected, but it barely made a difference in how many think she'd be qualified as President: up to 44% from 43%.
Seems people just had such a low expectation of her after the disastrous interview with Katie Couric -- she couldn't name ONE periodical she reads, or get out a coherent sentence -- that the barre to do "better" was so low.
She did challenge Obama's math, though -- no way can he deliver all those trillions of $ in programs while raising taxes ONLY on those making over $250K. And she was right: raising taxes on them is NOT "patriotic," sounds more Scandinavian or French to me.
And even that witch Nancy Pelosi has come around to admitting that we should tap Alaskan and other American oil, not be so dependent on countries that hate us or just play us (like the Saudis) and are as repressive to women, minorities etc. as can be. Biden had good points on the environment, too -- saying we should "teach China" about alternatives to their craze for building coal plants which even pollute the Western U.S. (BUT we need to OWN and license the technology, not just give it to them with some sucker "technology transfer."
Let's keep it simple:
For the last 8 years this country has been led by a Republican president, and for nearly all of those years, a Republican dominated Congress.
All the important parts of this country are going to pieces. There's nothing left for the Republicans to mess up.
In response to the latest economic meltdown, the president has been more of a commentator. He has done nothing to lead us through this.
McCain's campaign includes 177 active lobbyists and all the Bush advisors and manipulators.
Palin can't even tell us which newspapers she reads. She could have lied and made up any number of papers, but she couldn't even think of any.
And we're supposed to believe that we've got a better chance of change by electing McCain???????
Use your common sense and you'll have your answer.
How is it that you heard Sarah say "O'Biden" but you didn't hear Biden say "Bosniac"?
I'm sure you didn't miss that.
1. McCain has abandoned his campaign in Michigan. The dominos are beginning to fall.
2. John McCain's latest line in his interviews this morning is that at least his VP knows FDR never appeard on television. Actually, he did. He was the 1st president who ever did, in 1939 when, in McCain's defense, he was only 3.
Biden = crocodile tears.
Joe Biden also said that Obama did NOT say that he would meet Ahmedinejad without pre-conditions.
That's absolutely false.
Obama did say that, and has defended that point on many dates. Biden was wrong, and you will hear a lot about this.
I only mention the Obiden remark because I heard so much laughter from the audience. I did not hear the Bosniac remark because by that time, the entire room of people I was gathered with was doing imitation
Sarah Palin accents and cheerleader routines. I guess you had to be there!
I think that too many of you are getting immeshed in details that don't reach ordinary voters. For the most part, people vote either by party or by sweeping generalizations that they have formed about the candidates -- he's black, he's senile, he doesn't care about me, he's a crook, he's supported by the fat cats, etc.
All the rest is part of an information overload.
Michael how pathetic is it that your party prays you don't make an ass out of yourself like all the video clips flying through the internet of Palin sounding like a moron? Even the Republican strategists are saying she did ok in that she didn't f--k up and embarrass herself. Palin didn't answer the questions, kept quoting her brainwashed remarks, even said at one point, "I've only been at this 5 weeks. The Majority of the strategists are giving the debate to Biden. CBS has stated they have more clips not released and when those get out the numbers will go further down
Speaking as a member of the female set:
I HATE THAT WHITE-TRASH DOUBLE-DIGIT-IQ SKANK. The Republicans must be kidding! They *must* be!
joe b.: you are jumping on the splatter gun bandwagon for Obama and Biden. It is interesting how very wrong you can be so that you have to keep blogging time and time again on your own opinion piece. Say it well ONCE. Oh, that's right, you are backing the wrong candidate !!! In my opinion, joe b. has no substance and thinks he is "just too cute."
All anyone has to do is look at the mess this county is in. Look at the mess of our city LA and we know Antonio is to blame. Bush has been one of the worst presidents in history. Now, if you want more of the same for the next couple of years vote for the old man and the idiot female who looks good in a skirt. Did you hear Buchanan say she looked "attractive?"
McCain moving up in polls including in Minnesota (SurveyUSA).
Many young Americans are telling their friends they are voting for Obama because it makes them appear hip. However most of them are not likely to show up to the polls.
10:45
I noticed that you neglected to attach a link to your posting that McCain is moving up in Minnesota.
Maybe you're lazy, or maybe you don't want people to read what the pollsters have to say.
McCain is up by 1% but there's a 3.7% margin of error. That's a 3 point loss for Obama.
But the pollsters also said they can't tell if that reflects movement or protest.
The poll was taken while Congress was fiddling around on the bailout.
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0782fede-2757-4c86-9479-f84f02afc9fb
This is what women are saying about Palin. She doesn't represent us and in fact she did nothing to move the numbers of women up.
Sarah Palin did not save John McCain last night; she saved herself! In my opinion, she only solidified the perception that she is a high level empty-headed cheerleader for John McCain, albeit well-coached to offer answers to unknown questions. I thought her cutsy, winking, folksy, "aw-chucks" performance, and it was a performance, was an embarrassment and condescending to professional women who have worked hard to compete and earn their leadership roles. Palin is full of charm and conceit; hence her love of the camera (after all she is an ex-beauty queen). She is out of her element on all other issues, including energy, hence the concentrated coaching! I don't blame Palin for her position, I blame McCain! Desperate for votes, he chose a woman regardless of qualification. It has backfired on him, just like most of his other "shoot from the hip" decisions. The problem is that she truly believes that she has "earned" the right to stand next to the more experienced statesman Joe Biden. On stage, Palin looked out of her league; a little girl trying to play with the grown-ups! It was embarrassing and I'm so happy to read that Palin's performance did not impress most women. We saw the real Sarah Palin in front of Katie Couric -- we don't need to see any more!
THESE CANDIDATES CAN TELL WHAT THEY WANT TO GET ELECTED. UNTIL WE GET SOMEONE WHO TELLS THE TRUTH OR WHAT THEY FEEL IS RIGHT WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT LYEING WE WILL NEVER STOP HAVING FINANCIAL AND WORLD PROBLEMS. THEY HAVE TO SET A HIGHER EXAMPLE FOR THE COUNTRY. THE FACT THAT THEY ARE REHEARST TELLS YOU WHY THE TRUTH IS NOT A PRIORITY. PEOPLE HAVE TO STAND FOR SOMETHING AND LIVE IT.
Okay, Obama's a commie, so I reluctantly cast my vote for McCain. But did anybody catch Palin's classic misspeak when she said: "...and terrorists want to wipe the face off the earth..." I wasn't particularly aware that the earth had a face, per se. Didn't any of you Obama freaks hear that? No?? Speaks to your power of observation, now doesn't it? NOTE TO 'g said': Learn to spell. It's "rehearsed"-- not "rehearst."
A further note to "g":
Lay off the CAPS, damn it!
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