Sunday Morning Mimosa
JM, Live2shop Glendale!, 11.28.07
If you tagged along here in comments yesterday (I sorta hope you didn't), you may be surprised to see that the Daily News devotes an editorial to public comment this weekend.
Like any sensible brewer-patriot, they're for them.
If they could get away with it, elected officials at every level of government would probably ban unsolicited public comment atmeetings altogether.
They think their time is too important to be taken up by the contrary, pointless or odd observations of members of the public who have nothing better to do than come to public meetings and speak.
Luckily for the public, they have not yet figured out a way to do this legally. Open-meeting laws require that elected officials oblige us with some forum to comment on their actions - no matter how much it annoys them.
In Los Angeles, though, public officials have come up with ever-more draconian rules designed to discourage public comment and keep the masses seen but not heard. The Los Angeles City Council recently tightened rules on language use and allows only two minutes per speaker. On controversial topics, the Los Angeles Unified School District Board of Education has typically limited speakers to a total of seven - even on important issues such as eminent domain of neighborhoods.
But it's the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors - the body most insulated from the wrath of voters - that showed the most contempt for regular folks with its public comment rules.
Last week, the supes voted to drop the restrictions in place for 15 years. We'd praise the move, except this was the same body that for years happily limited citizens from addressing them to once every three months...
Public comment is indeed largely a waste. Largely. But its psychic value to the City as a visible organ of free speech more than compensates. It has also been the training ground for at least one current City Lobbyist who went against Council's decision to let St. Vibiana's be demolished (it wasn't). It's a place where things can indeed happen, and where they have. If they don't happen on occasion because of public comment, that doesn't mean the commenters aren't doing their jobs, it means the Councilpeople aren't.
The paper also weighs in on Tom LaBonge's way-too-harebrained scheme to tax parcel-owners (not just homeowners) so that the Council can start up a discretionary slush fund for traffic mitigation studies.
No word on if Garcetti has noted yet that the plan costs property owners less than a frappucino a month, like the last slush fund would have.
The former fishwrap of record, which keeps telling us that they have so little space for current civic news, busts out the scandalous story on the Lankershims. They were only scooped by, oh, about 130 years on that one. But the story is a good way to get Tom Gilmore's name in the paper.
Attention all you $178,000-a-year LAUSD image consultants...here's your big chance to earn your bucks... The Times is also using the word "deploy" to describe inserting top teachers into "ethnically diverse" classrooms of color.
"Deploy," eh? I guess teachers are working for combat pay after all. Maybe the District could "deploy" some accurate paychecks too once in a while.
Labels: daily news, LA Times, lausd, los angeles politics, public comment, traffic
Posted by Joseph F. Mailander @ 12/02/2007 02:06:00 AM
28 Comments:
So Does Zuma still get to sing and dance at the city council meeting?
7:41am, is that all you could say after all of this? Does Zuma still get to sing and dance? Pretty shallow of you. Is this whole issue revolving around me? I hope not...my ego is already so big my cranium hurts. Besides that:
Singing and dancing are protected forms of expression under the first amendment. Expression goes beyond the printed and spoken word to include physical movement. And of course singing is allowed, because that is merely spoken words, with a little tonality inflections. So yes, both are protected by law. But that doesn't mean that shady crybaby sissy Eric Garcetti doesn't use his arrogance and pompousness to prevent these U.S. protected expressions. But I don't think Garcetti and company aren't much concerned about Federal law. THEY run the City. How many times has that pussy garcetti cut people off when they were within the confines of the law, only to say, "I know yo are allowed to say that, but I'm aksing you not to."
HEY GARPUSSY...NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR FUCKING OPINION...STICK TO THE LAW AND KEEP YOUR PUSSY TRAP SHUT.
YOU UNDERSTAND, SON! If someone is speaking, and they are within the legal confines, keep your mouth shut. no one cares about your comments on what constitutes "dignity" or if it's a little more than a thin skinned pussy like you can handle.
STICK TO THE LAW GARCETTI. I THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH SHOES YOU SHOULD BE WORRYING ABOUT DROPPING.
So there's your answer. OF COURSE you are allowed to dance and sing during your public comment time.
But you are assuming LA City Council follows the law. And everyone from the public to the DA's office knows that's a weak assumption.
Besides that....JM, this is a great thread today cause of the variety of topics.
Does he get to do it at the Daily News at their daily staff meetings? Just to make sure they are informed?
Is the Daily News a government agency, that creates laws and spends public taxpayer dollars? If so, then they should be required to have public comment, too. If they are not...why would you even ask that question. Are you trying to prove you are a bitter, agendized, dummy? If so, you ROCKED it!
What government agencies are paid to listen to fools rapping and complaining about the same things to no purpose, instead of doing their work? And you're araguing they are required to listen to you singing and dancing your idiocies as "a protected form of speech?" That's why every city has a public corner where people ranging from crackpots to political parties with three members get to do that. Boston and London especially come to mind. Others go and watch the spectacle. But it's optional to watch them or not -- it's like the street scene at the Promenade or Santa Monica Pier.
London's Parliament does not listen to that and no elected body can and do their work. You are such a weird egotist to think you are more important then the pressing issues.
When I go to present an issue that is important to my part of the city I resent having to sit through all that too -- I want to present my case and get on with my life. too bad you don't seem to have one or care that others do. Where's your respect for other people's time?
If you need attention, go to some open mike coffee house.
"When I go to present an issue that is important to my part of the city I resent having to sit through all that too -- I want to present my case and get on with my life. too bad you don't seem to have one or care that others do. Where's your respect for other people's time?'
You get paid by the hour to "present an issue that is important to my part of the city" .
Many of us cant attend, but we can ask Zuma to act as a sounding board for our community.
Ask to speak first...say your piece and leave. Then you dont have to listen. Some of us need Zuma to speak for us or about what we know is wrong.
9:17am, I should mention that the singing must be about city business under council jurisdiction.
So in other words as long as I am singing the words, "We don't need your legislation" (to the tune of another brick in the wall), I'm o.k.
Besides that...you keep arguing the same mute point. because it IS a law. when the law is changed, and they are still taking public comment...then come on back and start posting the same post over and over.
AND BY THE WAY 9:17am...before you say my comments are a waste of time (promotion/singing/off topic/not relevant) I HOPE YOU GO BACK AND WATCH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR 2007 on the lacity.org website and tell me the public comment that did not make 100% use of the time on a topical issue over council's jurisdiction.
Please pull some quotes from the my comments that are irrelevant, off topic, or a waste of time (only about ZD/promotion). I CHALLENGE YOU! (I'm not saying you have to agree with my position.)
GO AHEAD CRYBABY...FIND IT AND POST IT...LACITY.ORG has archives of every single word I have spoken in 2007. (The archives don't go back any further.) FIND IT!
I know you are trying to run a crybaby spin campaign...but I hope you realize, if I was up there being the time-wasting idiot you are trying to position me as...do you think all these people in the city would be rallying behind me and supporting me with all their knowledge, time and information.
I would have petered out after the first month. But I've been evolving the entire time, based on feedback from the public. Council and ZD haters should take a little comfort to know that although they are always trying to tame me down...it's the general public (who support me, that have credibility with me) that have coached me along and tamed me into the truly frightening public comment speaker they fear...and it has NOTHING to do with silly time wasting tactics.
9:43: Who is "us" and "our community?" If you have a community, you are welcome to send a representative from it and identify your needs. You will then be taken seriously and listened to. Sending rude fools as your messenger makes the message seem as foolish as the messenger.
If zuma has been elected by a group to represent them, say who it is and who elected him. I didn't think so.
Zuma, the way you're conducting yourself here, and the language and "arguments" JM used to justify wasting the Council's time (that the more of their time wasted the better in his opinion), undercuts anything you may have to say to clear yourself. You talk about your fearsome and awesome capabilities and being begged to do this and that without anyone else every coming forward to say so, is attention- seeking and disrespectful to authority on its face.
As poster said, anyone is welcome to go to Hyde Park with a megaphone and others are welcome to listen to them OR ignore them. It has to work both ways when you behave like that.
I'm concerned that if you make a stupid "make me stop" contest out of it, they'll cut down public comment time for the day for everyone. Which is their legal right. So start respecting others.
10:06am,
Don't you realize that 100% of my content is provided to me by people in the community. They know I am blogging, calling radio and showing up for public comments, so they educate me, in hopes that the issue hits me, and i try and bring any awareness to the issue to the best of my ability.
so someone does not have to be an elected official to represent (re-present) other people's sentiments.
some people cannot show up at those hours, some people are not comfortable speaking publicly, and some people cannot speak on camera because of political repercussions.
So I'm like a Top 40 station of community issues. people pitch me their information, i think people will tell you I use about almost all of it, at one time, or another -- and when the clock starts counting down the two minutes, i go with what i think is the biggest concern at that moment.
If anyone thinks I have ever said one sentence at public comment that someone else from the community didn't "school my ass on" first -- well, then you are giving me way too much credit.
I love the process of people emailing me, then speaking with them on the phone -- or having a bus driver tell me what's up...or people who stop me on the street to tell me what is important to them...and of course the ZD "insiders" who rack up way too many minutes on my cell phone...
It's GREAT! I may have lived in communities all my life...but i never really knew the true meaning of community. MAN...all the people who I have encountered this past year and a half has been the biggest blessing, ever.
I was definitely Bill Murray in "Scrooged" but all the freinds i have met in the past year (you all know who you are) have changed me.
NO ONE is more surprised, than me, that a call from some 80 year old lady who i never met could make my day more than anything else.
So all you bitter haters are missing out on this spirit/force. and that's why you are so hostile and angry. that's no way to go through life and really bad strategy. (See Sun-Tzu "Art of War".)
10:13am,
Shove it! How I conduct myself on a blog, and before city council are two separate things. you are such a confused, frustrated loser, you cannot even think clearly. and the rest of your post was irrelevant, as well. I'll do and say what I want, when I want, wherever I want, you symbolically banned word!
Are you kidding?
The insecure little pussy (Dave Elliott), who fashions himself as some sort of celebrity - (I guess he is - in the context of being a freak), goes through the threads around here and, whether the posts are his or someone else's, deletes any that he deems to be critical of him or his behavior.
This is the same ignoramus with a third grade education, who whines like a little three year old girl when the public body that he is boring to death with self serving rants and attention attracting sing-song, off key stupidity, reminds him that he is off message.
In short, Higby, aka Mayor Sam, has lowered the level of discussion around here by degrees of magnitude, simply by giving him the keys.
The guy is an attention whore, and cannot stand the criticism; witness the three straight posts by him. If that isn't ADD, I don't know what is.
He has no life, other than the blogs, and sticking his smelly nose into other peoples' business. He lives in a van, begs for food, gas money, coffee money and bus fare. God knows when he last took a shower, and he eschews the use of deodorant, or even washing his smelly clothes and ski cap. Just stand next to him in Council and you could faint, worse, get caught in an elevator with him.
If you read this post, it is only because he is sleeping, or didn't see it yet, because he will delete it for sure as soon as he sees it.
But, don't worry; I've copied it and I'll post it several times today on several other threads, just to occupy the fool and keep him from creating other mischief.
Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah to all of you sane folks.
"deletes any that he deems to be critical of him or his behavior."
(Sorry defeated one...only one's that contain lies/libel/sexually graphic crap mixed in. Meanwhile, please search this blog for the past year of any criticism that is about my position/context of my comment/writing. It is only about me personally. So if you wanna call, "the third grade educated, smelly, homeless, no job, timewasting bum" criticism, I guess I will have to live by that standard. But you cannot mix in lies/libel/sexually graphic content mixed in. You cannot say that ZD is like michael richards who attacks people with racial slurs if they disagree with him. So that is not criticism, because I have never done that. I wouldn't say, "'Elected Official' is a pathalogical like O.J. Simpson who allegedly killed two people over sunglasses."
And finally, you gotta drop the "third grade educated" in your description or i may delete it if i'm extra cranky. i am a high school graduate with some college education. so please say, "low GPA, under-performing high school graduate, please."
Dance for us, Z-Dogg!
Dance!
I liked the good old days when at least trujillo was around to present some actual criticism/clarifications of comments/blogging by zd.
nothing would make zd happier than if someone criticized zd for something like, "you idiot...you say the sub-prime/housing bubble is gonna burst...no way, dummy! (then explain why it won't)
Or, "Zuma, don't you get it...the reason why the mayor and city council are creating way too much density, without enough infrastructure (by their own admission) is because of..."
How about, "ZD, you say the labor union is going to be getting a 25% plus raise? NO WAY, council and the newspapers say 13%-15%. It will NEVER be a 25% raise." (And explain why not.)
Or, "Zuma! What are you talking about...the LA Housing Authority is a perfectly legitimate organization? What DA investigation? And explain why I am off-the-mark.
He would appreciate someone saying, "Big ZD, although I admire your passion and attempt to try and be on the right side of the issue...there is no reason to raise tenant relocation fees, or pay attention to vacancy rate requirements or any of that Ellis stuff. It's never gonna change, and it's right in line with where it needs to be because..."
Do I need to list more examples of some valid criticism, vs personal attacks. (I guess we'll find out.)
But I don't think you are fooling anyone. At least it doesn't seem like you are, based on the feedback I get on the streets everytime I step out with the cap and glasses.
And it still tweaks these politicians that people ask them, "Hey, you know ZD? What's he really like?" And all that stuff. People think they are saying an innocent, little fun ice-breaker, not realizing it's the worse thing they could say. Meanwhile, what their response SHOULD be to these people is, "Oh yeah. He's hilarious. We love him. Yeah, he's cool in real life underneath all the hype. not a bad guy."
Cause Marketing Strategy will tell you that you are not going to change these people's mind...so you try and embrace the "positive intent" these people have, and pimp the good vibe. It's all Sun-Tzu type of stuff. I think AlarCON is the best at this type of "embracing the force" PR savvy out of those 15 "foot in their mouth" PR backfire-dummies. They are their own worst enemy. Look how easy they made it for a clown like me to throw it back in their face. And not ONE person on this blog (besides trujillo) has ever been able to find a chink in my comments/blogging. (I'm not saying there aren't any...it's just that you losers don't seem to be able to articulate anything beyond the Big ZD, himself.
[Ego boost, y'all. I sent links to my out of town friends to say, "Man! I must have become some kind of 800 lb gorilla. look how people sit here at 3, 4, 5 in the morning blogging about me! They're OBSESSED with ZD! I've saturated their mind. they are completely consumed." Meanwhile, these are my friends who have know me all my life, and i'm about as under-average as possible in THAT world...and they can't even grasp the concept as to what all of this could be about. Then they ask me for the next stock trends. Cause they couldn't care less about all this "ZD" stuff they hear about.
If someone came to this blog for the first time, they would be saying, "Damn, I don't know who this Zuma Dogg is, but he sure seems to be some big time figure because all people are doing is talking about him."
Flourish and Bow: Thank you...Thank you!!! Triumphant victoriousness! Somehow, I became top of mind awareness under the most miserable of no-budget circumstances. I'd say if I never blogged another word, I was triumphant as hell, y'all...hell yeah!
youtube.com/zumadogg
Zuma, here's the plan:
Have Mayor Sam rent you a theatre in the NoHo district.
Charge $20 to $40 per ticket.
Put all your marketing practices to work in order to sell out 99 seats.
Give two hours of your public comment. Sing, dance, do whatever you like.
Then take a big bow to the amazing standing ovation.
Anybody wanna hazard a guess as to what attendance would be for ONE show?
11:51am,
What does that have to do with free speech, the first amendment, the brown act and public comment at city council meetings? Again, check my content on lacity.org. otherwise lick your crybaby wounds and leave with your tail between your legs.
'Who is "us" and "our community?" If you have a community, you are welcome to send a representative from it and identify your needs. You will then be taken seriously and listened to. Sending rude fools as your messenger makes the message seem as foolish as the messenger.
"We" are people who work for a living, barely have time to read all the crap the council puts up, knows much about the graft in the neighborhood and usually afraid to committ ourselves to "being taken care of" by the Mexican Maffia and whatever other group out for their own benefits.
Anything else you need to know? Zuma Dogg is not alone...he has a network of people who supply information. When enough people talk about the same thing it is something to watch. When the Mayor or a Councilman gets nervous we know we are getting through with the truth.
ZD, it has plenty to do with free speech, the first amendment, the brown act and public comment at city council meetings.
Since you're not nearly interesting enough or provacative enough to attract a paying crowd, the public has to pay councilmembers to sit through your stuff...that's all.
give it up, loser. you keep saying the same irrelevant thing, over and over. spice up your argument with some depth and dimension. you got NOTHING and you keep echoing it. You're more empty than Ed Reyes or Tom Lebong's head. They are paid to be council members. part of that is public comment. sometimes it goes on longer than any busy professional would like. unfortunatley, we are dealing with government, and first amendment, and all that kind of bureaucracy.
You haven't said a THING about their three hour dog and pony shows on presentation fridays. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. Until you cut that shit way back, don't talk to me.
And how about all the excessive hours that mount each day and throughout the week when 15 CMs stand up to say the same thing so they can be seen on camera sucking-ass. How about a limit on how many council members get to kiss the same person's ass during these meetings. (Maybe they can buzz in like a game show, and the computer will pick 5 CMs at random who get to speak for the entire 15.)
anyway, until you address some of that, you are nothing more than a propaganda weak-ass gnat. And you lose again. Now repeat the same thing you just said about the fact that politicians shouldn't have to sit through public comment, even though the brown act requires it, and i'll bitch slap you back on your ass, again.
12:18: Your "we" stands for the person who keeps harping on why the Mayor has 26 cars and what happened to Mirthala -- not one thing of general interest or usefulness, just irrelevant distractions and gossip.
That's the community zuma represents.
Or if someone wants to attack a CM from another camp, they'll use him.
And he says he's speaking now for the illiterate parents in East L A who oppose the Mayor's plans for the schools, when they've failed the kids, city and taxpayers for years, and when these parents do try to explain why they're opposed, they sound illiterate.
Zuma, your holding up Reyes and LaBonge as not being too educated, either, may be true -- but they're elected unlike you, it's their duty and job to be in Council, and if the people don't like how they perform, they say so. No one elected you and you refuse to be accountable to anyone.
You keep these people from doing their jobs, and if they're as dumb as you say they are, people tell them how they feel.
There are emails, blogs, letters to the editor, plenty of other ways.
12:57 said...12:18: Your "we" stands for the person who keeps harping on why the Mayor has 26 cars and what happened to Mirthala -- not one thing of general interest or usefulness, just irrelevant distractions and gossip. EXCUSE ME...PLEASE FIND THE ZUMA DOGG THREADS ABOUT THE MAYOR'S 26 fleet or what happened to mirthala. MAN, you can't even pick two topics i have blogged about. those are just two topics i have not posted threads about. those are not my issues. so you lose there, hilariously. (nice try. guess you can't find anything i actually blog about to criticize, so you have to resort to trying to tag me as the gossip/mirthala guy...unfortunatley, that's not my thing. DAMN, EVEN ANTONIO HIMSELF WOULD GIVE ME THAT. (That i don't talk about that shiznit, and mayor sam and everyone else knows i don't even like see that stuff on the blog, at all.)
Secondly, council members don't read all blogs. BUT -- HERE ARE TWO MAIN REASONS YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY DRAG YOUR BUTT TO CITY HALL FOR ACTUAL PUBLIC COMMENT:
1) Some of the stuff blasted during public comment, ends up being seen by the right people, like the DA's office, and has been known to cause some action.
2) IT PUTS IT ON THE RECORD! #1 REASON YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY GO DOWN TO CITY HALL. IT PUTS IT ON THE RECORD! In other words, unless ZD goes down to city hall to say, "venice beach ban is unconstitutional", or "vacancy rates are being ignored in violation of the law", or (whatever) -- you cannot take further action against the city in the future.
So in other words, unless some folks take the pleasurable trip to skid row adjacent (spring street) and endure three hours of kiss ass presentations -- to complain about the tenants being illegally kicked out of their homes...they have no legal recourse in the future.
Once it hits public comment on the record, council knows the clock is ticking.
Hey 12:57pm, for someone who is willing to fire off their mouth so much...you don't know too much.
I think no one would pay to see Zuma Dogg in a theater. Just my opinion, but for a guy who makes himself readily available to the public through YouTube, etc., he doesn't seem to have much of a following. I also think he likes being hated. Not sure where that gets anyone.
"12:18: Your "we" stands for the person who keeps harping on why the Mayor has 26 cars and what happened to Mirthala '
WAS NEVER ONE OF MY QUESTION BUT
Why does he have 26 cars?
NEVER ONE OF MY QUESTIONS BUT
What is she going to be promoted to?
"-- not one thing of general interest or usefulness, just irrelevant distractions and gossip"
There is always a little truth in every bit of gossip. Most of us find this interesting and not an irrevelevant direction.
I have told YOU before
IF YOU DONT LIKE ZUMA DONT READ HIS POSTS. PROBLEM SOLVED.
I am tired listening to YOU!
These politicos need to be reminded that this is America, not a third world country, specifically city council. If these politicos don’t like public comment, they should save taxpayers money and RESIGN.
Oh doesn't our god damn city hall council members WISH we couldn't have public comment! Oh my god, the thought makes me puke. Imagine how much worse they would be. They already have their fiefdoms that sicken us. They run the whole freaking city and half of the people in their districts don't know their names or have heard their names but don't know what their jobs are.
And some of us with issues call or email Zuma Dogg and give him the stories whether anyone at city hall likes it or not.
We need a major uprising here, a huge revolt. We need something to take away the power of those 15 whores who will all leave and if they don't win for their next office, Janice for mayor, Wendy for controller and then (she hopes-but it's not looking good) mayor, Bernie for Supe (never in a million years), Alarcon there for nothing but the power and the pension, etc.
We need a Boston Tea-like revolt.
Mayor Sam or Zuma,
Could a good chunk of this anti-Zuma commentary be from Jim Alger?
Stupid 9:17 - London's Parliament is not subject to Federal Law - it is subject to British Law!
I cannot believe everyone here MISSED that!!!
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