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Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Wendy Greuel Steps Up!


As a follow-up to yesterdays "Black Monday in Sunland-Tujunga" post, here is the text of the letter Councilmember Wendy Greuel has sent to the City Attorney;

From: Wendy Greuel , Councilmember 2nd District
To: Jeri Burge, Assistant City Attorney

Re: Proposed Sunland Home Depot Store
Dear Ms. Burge:
This morning, the Department of Building and Safety issued building permits for the
property at 8040 Foothill Blvd. in the Sunland part of my district. The permits allow the remodeling of a former K-Mart store for use as a Home Depot store. In order for these permits to be issued, City staff was required to make two specific findings: 1) that the Home Depot use is substantially the same as the K-Mart use, thereby avoiding a Change of Use process and 2) that the proposed tenant improvements did not constitute a "Project" as defined in the Foothill Blvd. Corridor Specific Plan, thereby avoiding a Project Permit Compliance process.
I have received comments from my constituents to the effect that Home Depot's
operations are sufficiently different from K-Mart's operations so as to constitute a
Change of Use. I have also received comments which contend that the proposed tenant
improvements are sufficient to constitute a "Project" as defined in the Specific Plan.
Accordingly, I would appreciate it if you would review these two findings and advise me as to whether you believe the staffs interpretations of City regulations were consistent with applicable law.

Very Truly Yours,
Wendy Greuel

You can read the .pdf version here

Our thanks to Wendy and a personal thanks to Mayor Sam for indulging me in this matter!

64 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said:

It seems like someone in planning didn't get Gail Goldberg's memo on "Nobody knows a neighborhood
better than the people that live
there". This PROJECT stinks, from the 100 db noise at night to the continued absence of any store here that sells general merchandise. The higher the price of gas gets, the worse this impacts the elderly and those on fixed incomes.

July 25, 2006 8:34 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Not only does this project stink, but seeing how this is the only site large enought to support a general merchandise store in the area, allowing Home Depot to open could
force S-T residents to shop in other cities for the next few decades.
Current estimates are that $190 million ( yes, $190 million) dollars per year leave the area for the cities of Burbank, Pasadena, and Glendale.

July 25, 2006 9:01 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Yes Joe that is absolutely correct. According to an economic study commissioned by the former STNC, the retail leakage from S/T is $190 million a year. That money "leaks" out of S/T (the City of Los Angeles) and in to Pasadena, Burbank and Glendale for things like UNDERWEAR and HOUSEHOLD GOODS that are unavailable in S/T.

The City is being penny wise and pound foolish by approving a Home Depot for this 11 acres of prime real estate in a community that has the spending power and the desire to shop locally.

If they can't think of what is good for S/T, then perhaps they SHOULD think about all the lost sales tax revenue. The former neighborhood council aponsored the Sunland Tujunga Vision 2020 initiative. WE know what we need. The City, is BLIND to our needs and apparently, their own too.

July 25, 2006 10:33 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

The subject is No Home Depot in Sunland Tujunga and so I also say thank you, Wendy Greuel.

And if you want to know why the former Sunland-Tujunga Neighborhood Council is the former neighborhood council go to stopvision2020.com

July 25, 2006 10:58 PM  

Blogger Jim Alger said:

This is another picture perfect example of a City Councilmember doing right by her constituents and listening to the community.

Wendy has been a shining example of how the City Council can work with people and even if the community should lose, it certainly won't be because of a lack of effort on the council offices part.

I wish we saw more examples of this type of coordinated cooperation across the City. Neighborhood Councils, and the community should all be on the same side with their Council Office leading the charge. All to often that isn't the case and when a councilmember goes that extra mile, as Wendy has here and Greig Smith has done in CD 12 with his work on the Devonshire PALs Youth Center they should be commended.

July 26, 2006 3:42 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Alger attempting to mend fences in district 12... Three members of his Neighborhood Council resigned because they had little confidence in Alger's leadership. Alger must be looking for a friend!

July 26, 2006 6:07 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Anybody ever hear of economics around here? If Walmart is not wanted by the residents, it will fold its tent and go away for lack of business.

Meanwhile, one has to assume that they know their marketplace, so why not let them open up and give us all an alternative place to shop? No one is forced to patronize them, you know.

You guys are the reason that LA is so screwed up. Business can prosper here and create sales, which create the taxes needed to supply the police, firemen and other services you all demand.

Why not back off and give business a chance to succeed, or fail?

This is America, not the USSR.

July 26, 2006 7:14 AM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

I don't get it. What's wrong with having a Home Depot? And is that really a step down from K-Mart? Have any of the Wal-Mart opponents even been in a K-Mart in the past 10 years? I have. Man, it looked as though it had been looted! Merchandise was lying in the aisles, and the air didn't smell, well, "new," if you know what I mean.

The City needs to remain neutral with respect to businesses, rather than skewing market forces by trying to favor one type of a business over another. Changing the tenant of a building from one type of retailer to another should be a non-event. It's not like replacing a retailer with, say, a pig-iron factory. Retail is retail, for regulatory purposes, don't you think? Merchandise comes in the back, and leaves through the front.

Insisting on another K-Mart type store is particularly silly, because, hello!, K-Mart went bankrupt. That, my friends, is nature's way of saying, "This isn't working. You need to try using these assets for something else."

July 26, 2006 7:30 AM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

P.S. If any of you out there are so very sure that K-Mart store would sell more than a Home Depot, put your money where your mouth is and open one. Can't do it? What does that tell you? Nor do you see anyone else out-bidding Home Depot for the property; not Wal-Mart, not Costco, not Target, and not Mom-N-Pop's General Merchandise. That's because the market has concluded Home Depot is the most profitable use of the property.

July 26, 2006 7:33 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

This whole issue is racist NIMBY bullshit!

The only reason all those upscale people prefer a KMart rather than a Home Depot is that Home Depot stores mean (il)legal immigrant day laborers hanging around.

The real solution is to wise up to the reality and support legal, regulated day laborer centers.

July 26, 2006 7:35 AM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

P.S. I meant "Home Depot opponents," not "Wal-Mart opponents." However, I suspect the one group includes the other.

July 26, 2006 7:36 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

some respondents love to bring back every issue to race!! Having a general merchandise store to serve the community with what it wants and needs has nothing to do with race! As as for "all the upscale" people, the respondent better get educated on the demographics of the area before blurting out rash statements.

We have no shortage of day laborers available now, just check out Foothill Blvd between Haines Canyon and Tujunga Canyon adjacent to the U-Haul rental spread over several blocks.

July 26, 2006 7:44 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Wendy is an idiot! Everyone bad mouths her in council cause all she does is kiss ass to Antonio and has become another one of is groupies. I liked her better when she stood on her own two feet.

What's up with Alger now saying nice things about Smith after slamming him hard for the longest time? Doesn't make sense unless he wants something from him.

July 26, 2006 8:21 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

What happened to free market forces the people in Sunland are commies.

If they want a K-mart they should of shopped at the one that was their. They didn't it went broke and closed.

Simple economics 101.

July 26, 2006 8:39 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Yes, that is right. How can someone complain about the lack of GM stores and then not have shopped at the K-Mart that was there?

This country is becoming a socialist state. What happened to Capitalism? The goverment cannot dictate what stores it likes and dislikes and then give preference to them. Walmart and Home Depot BAD. K-Mart and Target GOOD.

This is silly. If they want to keep Home Depot away, simply don't shop there when it opens. But, I bet that Home Depot will be full of shoppers, maybe even people who have complained about them.

July 26, 2006 8:47 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I totally agree, they had their K-Mart already, and it closed...

Come on you silly Sunland folks, go find something better to do with your time than try and fight Home Depot...

Grow up, you all seem so "trailer park"...you know?

July 26, 2006 8:57 AM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

And just what is it about a Home Depot you don't like, anyway? I mean, it's a legitimate business, and it sells stuff people need to repair their homes and/or businesses need to build new structures.

I could understand opposing a disco -- do they still call them "disco's?" -- or a strip club, or a casino, but a building supply store???!

Is it just that you don't want any big business there due to the traffic? That, I could understand. But if that's it, say so; don't pretend that it's a vital need to buy underwear locally.

July 26, 2006 9:06 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

You are all so foolish when you speak of things you know nothing about. KMart in Sunland-Tujunga was most profitable. As a settlement of their bankruptcy Home Depot was permitted by the Court to choose KMart sites and the Court approved their list. If you do not know the neighborhood with schools, narrow streets, no buffer between Home Depot site and residences, then shut up and stay home!

July 26, 2006 9:30 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

was that the same neighborhood with schools, narrow streets, no buffer between "old KMart" site and residences? So it was OK then?

July 26, 2006 9:44 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

such immature, ungrammatical respondents choose to call S-T residents "trailer park" and commies. Your comments always deterioriate into name-calling (such as "Wendy is an idiot") rather than offering any useful insight. The K-Mart in Sunland was poorly managed,but nevertheless the community did support it. The community and Wendy sent many letters and had meetings with K-Mart to urge them to keep it open. Anyway, who says we want another K-mart anyway, all we are interested in is some kind of general merchandise store.

July 26, 2006 11:02 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

how many times was Wendy going to say "mike hunt" in council before she realized what that sounded like?

July 26, 2006 11:21 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Home Depot would generate more traffic issues than K-Mart ever did. That's why existng Home Depots (such as the one in Sylmar) are located in industrial areas where they don't impact on the residential areas. This site is surrounded by residential areas and a school. They have tractor trailers making deliveries and noise at all hours. They open much earlier than K-Mart's do.

It is interesting than people than don't have a clue about the area or it's residents feel free to denigrate them, rather than offer any constructive suggestions.

July 26, 2006 11:27 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

sorry to burst your bubble, but I know a lot about the area, I lived there for many years and moved away when I saw how bad the schools were for my kids and was sick of seeing all the homeless people living everywhere. Plus all my neighbors loved getting drunk and letting their small children run around unsupervised.

July 26, 2006 11:48 AM  

Blogger joseph mailander said:

The new Home Depot better stock lots of river rocks, because that's what serves as wainscott for most of those older Sunland Tujunga cribs.

July 26, 2006 12:12 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

10:58pm

The economic study noted in the 10:33 pm post has been touted by WENDY GREUEL,the USC study of N/C's ,Professional Urban Planners,Economists ,just to name a few.

The $190 million dollars in retail leakage is well documented.Build a Home Depot and people will STILL go out of the City of Los Angeles to find a decent resturant, buy household goods, socks, underwear.

So 10:58pm - Anyone taking your advise will see how completely insane you are.It is just priceless that you PUBLICLY tie these lies and complete fabrications to the present

July 26, 2006 12:15 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

12:15pm continued

should be:

the demise of the past N/C.

July 26, 2006 12:19 PM  

Blogger Mayor Sam said:

Walter,

What we need is for the City Council to pass a billion dollar bond on the ballot for the "affordable stores" we like program. That way the Sunland Tujunga folks can go to the Department of Neighborhood Shopping who will then work with Public Works to build a culturally and environmentally sensitive store for them. Then, it would be staffed by a well connected store management firm like they have at the airport, but only after an agreement is signed with LAANE and the unions that a living wage can be paid.

Of course, the store could only sell one color of underwear and it would cost three times as much as WalMart, but hey, we'll be happy.

July 26, 2006 12:29 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

even Home Depot's own stockholders can't get a straight answer out of their CEO if you've mnitored recent news.

Check out the website : www.homedepotsucks.com for more on their other sleazy business practices.

July 26, 2006 12:43 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

LOL!! Good one Mayor Sam.

July 26, 2006 12:45 PM  

Blogger Phil Krakover said:

Good going Walter. It is nice to find someone who undersnds what supply and demand really means.

Why don't you run for Mayor?

July 26, 2006 1:02 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Mayor Sam. Who said anything about affordable stores? We WANT retail businesses here and good resturants. We have plenty of "affordable" stores...99 cent stores and thift store galore. We WANT to spend our $190 million in Sunland Tujunga rather then driving to the Empire Center in Burbank, Colorado Blvd in Pasadena or the Glendale Galleria. We are DEMANDING it now all we need is someone to SUPPLY it.

July 26, 2006 1:19 PM  

Blogger Mayor Sam said:

In that case, see if you can get the CRA to hook you up with some dough and Rick Caruso, and you too can have "Americana at La Tuna Canyon" BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously, if J. Crewe, Kohl's, or even The Sunglass Hut thought there was gold in them thar hills, they'd be in ST in a minute. Obviosuly they've studied the area and found that it can't even support a K-Mart (though not all you guys fault, K-Mart has been a shitty company for decades and is only alive now cause of Sears, I predict both to go in the crapper soon and sell their buildings off to WalMart, Kohl's, Target, etc.).

I am not sure if they can support a Home Depot out there, but if Home Depot thinks so and they want to spend their dough doing it, fine with me.

July 26, 2006 2:16 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Really, those S-T folks should feel honored that Home Depot has invested the time to look at building there. There are NO OTHER companies remotely interested. Must be some good weed they got in S-T for them to think otherwise.

July 26, 2006 2:28 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Oh do the dum dums babble on and on...

Listen, there is a lot of interest in that site from retail establishments. Target for one has tried to buy the lease from Home Depot on 3 occasions. The others that are interested will not come forward until HD is out of the picture.
If you don't know what you are talking about, just ask.

July 26, 2006 2:37 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Mayor Sam... The La Tuna Canyon spot will be developed into more housing while retaining a 9 hole golf course. So forget your CRA/Rick Carouso dream.

Just add the spending power of 200 more homes at that location, 220 at Canyon Hills and from all the home presently being built in S/T to the $190 million already leaking out of this area.This is not Section 8 housing. Many of the new homes are selling for upwards of $1.2 million.It is an economic reality that S/T can support a large retail development.

July 26, 2006 3:29 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

maybe Joe wants to cruise Home Depot illegal alien workers but just not in his town.

July 26, 2006 4:06 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

4:06pm From the book: Anyway-The Paradoxical Commandments-Finding Personal Meaning in a Crazy World

#6 The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.

Since you seem to be lacking in the intelligence department, I'll translate: You're the smallest man/woman and Joe B. is the biggest man.

July 26, 2006 4:18 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

What's wrong with this picture:

"most profitable . . . bankruptcy" ?

That's right, kids! Profitable companies don't wind up in bankruptcy!

July 26, 2006 4:55 PM  

Blogger Jim Alger said:

Hey guys, what part of "Local Control" do you miss?

If the residents of Sunland Tujunga don't want to put up with high volume traffic from outside their communities and wish to try and enforce some type of local standard then they should be allowed to do that.

This idea of "let the market decide" is crap when the "market" is so heavily in favor of Conglamo Corporation who comes in, wipes out competition who couldn't afford to pay off politicians for the nifty tax breaks etc, and then dramatically changes a neihborhood.

6:07 am If you even had a clue what you were talking about your statements might have credibility. I have said on here no less than 20 times my disagreement with Greig Smith was over 2 issues period. Others have continuously tried to make that much larger than it ever was. As for the NC members quitting, One person that quit, Dennis DeYoung, wanted to be president. What was the problem? He didn't have the votes. He made a motion to set aside a meeting and that motion passed. He then quit because he couldn't get his way. Some leadership.

I have led many things in my life, but I have never led anyone right out the door. 3 people quit because they couldn't get their way, I expect that from mt 13 year old son, not grown adults. If something happens you don't like, leadership is sticking with it and finding a solution, not letting down the people who voted for you by quitting.

Cowards cut and run, period.

July 26, 2006 4:56 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

P.S. I do not purport to know ANYTHING about the neighborhood. That is why I asked what the objection is to Home Depot. The answer, I gather, is an expectation that it will clog traffic because it will have so much more business than K-Mart did. That rather undercuts the argument that the community "supported" K-Mart, unless you're talking about moral support, rather than frequent expenditures of legal tender.

As for the surrounding homes, it seems to me the price of those homes is already based on the presence of a large retail store right there. Whether it's a K-Mart or a Home Depot or a Wal-Mart or a Target should be a matter of indifference when it comes to public policy.

Now, if you want to make a case that eminent domain should be used to pay the landowner a fair price, and then turn the site into a park, that would make sense to me. If you want no traffic and no retail, just say so.

But, in my opinion, it's a mistake to try to second-guess the market by supporting one retailer rather than another, and it's unfair to try to strangle a business into a low-volume operation.

If you don't want a business there at all, be candid about it, and make the case for a park. Heck, with all the millions in subsidies going to billionaire developers downtown, why NOT have someplace nice for people in Sunland to go?!

Is there enough room for some horses? From what I hear, developers are crowding out horse trails that have provided a distinctive character for years. How about a place to horse around, as it were?

July 26, 2006 5:03 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Sam -- LOL. Yes, we must have "affordable retail." Let us pass bonds to build stores that will sell things at "affordable" prices. I mean, who can afford a 72" plasma screen in this town?

July 26, 2006 5:08 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Jim --

"Local control" is fine, but within limits. We do not, for example, let neighborhoods decide to opt out of niceties like due process, trial by jury, and the contracts clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Likewise, having establishing zoning laws as a City, people who play by the rules and invest a fortune in buying a piece of real estate should not have the proverbial rug pulled out from under them just because the locals decide that they would rather have Retailer A than Retailer B.

This is not a matter of unbridled, libertarian capitalism. Home Depot, it appears to me, has played by the rules, and some people are complaining that they want a different retailer. They don't have a right, as far as I can see, to force a different retailer there. They are interfering with Home Depot's rights.

I think what they REALLY want is to prevent ANY development or construction on the site. And you know what? I can respect and live with that. I think we need more green space in this City, not less.

So, as per my comment above, if that's what the locals really want, then I suggest that the people of that neighborhood start pressuring the Council to take the property through eminent domain and make it a park. Parks are fine, but we taxpayers should pay for land we want to use, rather than strangling businesses to death with taxes, lawsuits, and moving the goal posts.

July 26, 2006 5:18 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

You folks must all be smokin' yucca flowers because your just blab and blab and blab and go in every which way and you are all full of *&%$!

July 26, 2006 5:22 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Are you implying that's a bad thing?

July 26, 2006 5:28 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Walter,
Let's take a walk....you are so uninformed on this and the more you pontificate the less chance you'll ever get a vote from a resident of Sunland-Tujunga....
People did support K-Mart, it was actually a profitable store, but the kind of traffic it attracted was far different than what we can expect from
Home Depot. Home Depot attracts contractors that show up at 7 am to get their supplies for the day loaded into their trucks or stakebeds. This is the same time we are all going to work or dropping our kids at the school that is less than a block away. K-Mart customers would show up mid morning and buy a shirt or a dress ( no forklift needed there).
Home Depots business has shifted further and further towards professional sales,they have a pro desk and sell items in bulk, they even deliver these items via their own 18 wheel flatbed. Because they are selling in bulk, they must restock their shelves often , thus they require 18 to 20 semi truck deliveries per day. K-Mart probably had one or two deliveries per week.
We only have one main road through town and the nearest freeway on-ramp is over a mile away...are our objections starting to make sense yet? Home Depot stretches the definition of retail to a realm where they are often referred to as "Retail on Steroids". The definition of retail is "goods sold in small quantities directly to the consumer"
Home Depot sells to contractors who then "mark-up" or resale the goods to their clients. Home Depot is skating on very thin ice as far as the definition goes. When the rules were written, there were no Home Depots. The definition of retail in the codes needs to be reexamined, but that is another story for another day.
In the meantime, we are a community that is at a crossroads. We are fighting to stop further industrialization and to make the area more respondant to the consumer needs of its 75,000 residents. We already have plenty of home improvement type stores and a large portion of our residents provide the same services that Home Depot does, including cabinetry, carpet, door, window, and roof installation. We already have 9 Home Depots within a 30 minute drive, there is even one only 7 minutes away. Home Depot wants this property because it is the last lot of this size between Sylmar and Pasadena. If Home Depot is allowed to open, we have lost our chance to have an anchor retail establishment that sells general merchandise. Our money will continue to hemmorage to other cities as people leave town to buy household goods. We are trying to encourage smart development here that will make the town more vibrant and economically balanced. That is good business sense.

July 26, 2006 6:14 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I am a Sunland/Tujunga resident. I have no problem with Home Depot, but there is one in Sylmar I can shop at when I need those types of things. We need a general merchandise store in our neighborhood & there's not any without driving down to Glendale or to Burbank or somewhere in the Valley.

K-Mart was well supported because it was the only place of it's kind for residents to shop. On a recent trip to Bishop practically in the middle of nowhere, I spent an hour in the Big K-Mart there marveling how that little community had a place to shop and I don't without driving miles out of my way. It's a matter of convenience for general merchandise! My friends that live in small towns in the desert have more conveniences than I do available to them within the city limits of Los Angeles, and that's ridiculuous!

July 26, 2006 9:08 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Joe --

Thanks for the explanation. Alas, it strikes me as classic, unprincipled NIMBY.

First of all, where did you get your definition of "retail"? "Small quantities?" Even if that were the definition, Home Depot still satisfies it. Anyone can go in and buy a single screw.

Second, you live in a major urban area, next to an 11-acre retail site. Traffic is going to be a big part of your life. If you don't like traffic, you might want to consider Montana or Wyoming.

Third, I don't know where you're going with this "support" thing. K-Mart went bankrupt. Its assets were up for grabs. High bidder won. Now, in your opinion, Target or some other retailer could operate at a profit at that location. But your opinion, and $1.50, will get you the proverbial cup of coffee. Home Depot put its money where its mouth was, and outbid the retailers. If you think they're wrong, go into investment banking, but don't interfere with their legitimate property rights.

Fourth, I take you do NOT want a park there. You presumably think that would pose some greater threat to your neighborhood, e.g., homeless camps, or farming, or traffic. Okay, fair enough. But trying to limit a property owner to using a parcel for one, and only one, type of retail establishment, strikes me as unfair NIMBYism at its worth.

There's a strip mall on my block. The retailers in there are not my first choice. I'd rather have a Starbuck's than a Coffee Bean, for example. But I have no more right to use the power of government to enforce my preference than you do to enforce yours. You want all of the benefits or owning that parcel -- control over how its used -- without any of the burdens (e.g., paying for the property, paying the taxes, paying for insurance, etc.). That's just NIMBYism, isn't it?

July 26, 2006 9:10 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Walter,
You are truly a piece of work!

From Merriam Websters dictionary
( a valid source the last I heard):
Main Entry: 1re·tail
Pronunciation: 'rE-"tAl, especially for 2 also ri-'tAl
Function: verb
transitive verb
1 : to sell in small quantities directly to the ultimate consumer
2 : TELL, RETELL
intransitive verb : to sell at retail
- re·tail·er noun

You ignored the point I made that HD is shifting further and further into the world of pro sales and simply came up with your "anyone can go in and buy a screw" defense.

We are part of a major urban area, albeit one with a single road through town and horse stables located throughout.

Traffic is already a problem here, and any store there would increase traffic, but of course, you ignored my point about the type of traffic and the particular traffic patterns that a Home Depot creates.

K-Mart , the corporation did indeed go bankrupt, but that doesn't mean all of their stores were unprofitable. Surely even you can understand that a bankruptcy court makes little if any settlements based on individual store performance.

You also ignored my points on encouraging a balanced economic climate, and the already established 9 Home Depots within a 30 minute drive.

Instead you filtered it all down into your little tunnelvision view of life and resorted to calling this classic, unprincipled "Nimby".

How disappointing.

Perhaps if your next Mayoral campaign is as successful as your last, you may consider a job in the mailroom at Fox News.

July 26, 2006 9:44 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

It is clear we live in the greatest country. Home Depot won over nimby racists.

July 26, 2006 9:51 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Walter, etal--

As all those who are Corporatists/Fascists, you have no regard for individual rights. Your cold-hearted attitudes toward the people whose lives will be so severely affected by this Home Depot project would be shocking if it was not so familiar.

Why don't you suit up, get some white phosporous, and go help the Bush maniacs get Armageddon under way? In the meantime, we will handle our own business in our own community without heeding any of your unsolicited so-called advice.

And for those of you who think a CRA project is swell, go to: stopvision2020.com and learn something useful.

Furthermore, Mayor Sam, it would be a good idea to stop with the Anonynmous posts. People even with a moniker are usually more responsible with their slurs and their lies when they have some form of identity to answer to, although that does not always apply to you, does it?

July 26, 2006 11:45 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Apparently someone over at the website FoothillsForum.com says that...

"Mayor Sam's is a cesspool of people some of whom use foul language, spew lies, belch slurs, and operate with minds closed as tight as bank vaults. It's a waste of valuable time and energy."

To see for yourself, check out the posts at FoothillsForum.com towards the end of the thread called...

"The Proposed Home Depot in Sunland."

July 27, 2006 12:17 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Hey, 2:15 pm--What are you talking about? You continue to speak in paradoxes.

The website at stopvision2020.com speaks for itself. Yes, it is public. No, it is the truth.

The $190,000,000 leakage figure you use in your multiple, duplicit posts is actually incorrect as is shown in your Vision 2020 marketing plan known as the Penultimate Draft of the Sunland Tujuga Vision 2020 Pilot Plan. (See the table on page 32 of the Pilot Plan and the leakage figure your planners derived is $196,553,526. I believe that this plan and its critques can still be found on the STNC website.)

Although no report was ever received as promised, these flawed leakage figures were apparently compiled by your Smart Growth Urban Planners for the marketing plan known as the Pilot Plan.

These planners were hired by your defunct STNC board without a signed city contract and their employment was unapproved as required by DONE's Board of Neighborhood Commissioners at a worthless cost to the STNC of almost $28,000.

Additionally, you spent $3,200 for this marketing Pilot Plan which was never approved by your own now defunct board.

Determining how much money is leaking out of a city's coffers from one community in a city such as Los Angeles is literally impossible to do.

True, the closest Home Depot to S-T is in the city of San Fernando not Los Angeles, so that is where most of the potential Home Depot sales are probably going, but this is only speculation. There are many Home Depots close to S-T in the San Fernando Valley which is part of Los Angeles, and of course, there are many businesses and contractors in S-T where we spend our money instead of at any Home Depot.

At the moment basically all of S-T mercantile purchases are being made outside of S-T, but that does not mean we are not going to other Los Angeles communities to spend our money. It is likely that many S-T people shop at the Northridge Mall which is also in Los Angeles.

Furthermore, the additional sales at a S-T Home Depot would only displace the sales lost from the many merchants and contractors in S-T that would likely be put out of business by Home Depot.

None of this is verifiable, it is no more than speculative leakage statistics prepared by these Smart Growth Urban Planners who you hired and who intended to bring a LACRA project to S-T and therefore, had much to gain from their own statistics.

Some of you Vision2020 proponents just cannot let go of your desire to turn our rural, country suburb into YuppieVille. You have been soundly overridden by the people of Sunland Tujunga. Get over it!

July 27, 2006 4:25 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Joe B. face it, your a NIMBY, so why not just move??

July 27, 2006 11:06 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

4:25am AM?????
The vision we have for our community is on the cutting edge of planning today.STV2020 had the vision two years ago. Read the article on Gail Goldberg, the new City of L.A. Planning Director from last months Planning Report.Available at planningreport.com.Gail Goldberg touts everything STV2020 suggested.

An implmented smart growth plan would be quite a help in fighting Home Depot.Putting a HD on 11 acres of prime real estate in ST certainly is not smart. Smart Growth- is just that-smart.Fighting "smart growth" is, well, let's say - NOT SMART.

Look around S/T.Boarded up stores,blight. This is exactly what Trader Joes saw when they took a tour. They described Foothiil Blvd as "scary and blighted".Home Depot sees this too as does everyone else who comes to this area.

It is odd to us that the very people who proclaim victory of their perceived (key word-perceived)defeat of STV2020 are the same people who OWN the Boarded up stores on Commerce Ave. Who benefits from owning a boarded up store?Who benefits by ignoring the principles of smart growth?

The vocal minority in this town is in the death throes.The closer the future come to S/T the louder you sream and the less sense you make.Pitiful. The future is coming to Sunland Tujunga whether you like it or not.No matter how many lies you spread,the future will arrive.

Wendy Greuel repeatedly stated that STV2020 had nothing to do with the CRA or eminent domain but you continue to spread those lies to this day.She was most proud of the accomplishments of the very N/C you slam.


GET SOME SLEEP 4:25 AM.You're not making much sense

July 27, 2006 12:56 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Sunland Tujunga deserves more than HD on 11 acres. Smart Growth advocates see that driving miles in all directions for basic household items is the way of the past.You think gas prices are high now?Europe has been paying $6.00 a gallon and above for years.Add that to the price of socks and underwear!

Home Depot would be a big step backwards.We must move forward into the future.

For more information on the principals of smart growth please see smartgrowth.org.

July 27, 2006 2:21 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Joe --

You're absolutely right.
Because you live near someone else's property, you have a moral and legal right to determine what kind of business they run on it, even if they have already complied with all zoning and licensing regulations.

In particular, you, in your unfettered discretion, should be able to set the hours of operation, the merchandise mix, and the quantities sold per transaction so as to ensure that traffic flow always meets or exceeds your personal expectations.

No one who owns property near you should be allowed to run a business so successfully that traffic actually increases. Sure, it might mean jobs for hundreds of people, and it might lessen traffic in other places -- since people wouldn't have to drive so far to the other, existing Home Depots -- but public policy should focus on YOUR needs and wants, not those of other property owners.

I was obviously totally out of line in calling your well-reasoned position "NIMBY." Any objective observer could see that it's in the public interest to discourage overly successful businesses from using an 11-acre tract they obtained through bankruptcy.

And you're also right that anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid. After all, how can reasonable people reasonably disagree about land use? Clearly, I'm qualified for nothing more complicated than delivering mail in an office. Forgive me for attempting to address your overwhelmingly persuasive explanation for why the City should interfere with the market and allow only a store that meets your requirements to operate in your neighborhood.

July 27, 2006 3:46 PM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

P.S. To those of us whose minds have been warped by studying economics, the distinction between "retail" and "wholesale" does not focus on the scale of an operation, so much as it focuses on whether items are intended for resale. You could have a giant retail establishment (e.g., Wal-Mart) and a tiny wholesale establishment (e.g., a diamond merchant).

The fact that the parcel in issue covers 11 acres in an urban area suggests to me that, if someone's going to use it to maximize profits, he's going to generate lots of traffic, whether it's retail or wholesale.

The relevant factor for present purposes therefore isn't retail vs. wholesale, but volume.

July 27, 2006 3:52 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

YES!!! ITS THE FOURTH QUARTER SUNLAND, AND YOU'VE JUST FUMBLED THE BALL, TOUCHDOWN TIME BABY!!! A HOME DEPOT WILL BE BUILT NO MATTER IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! YOU CANT BEAT THE UNBEATABLE SUNLAND, AND IF YOU THINK MONDAY WAS A SLAP IN THE FACE WAIT TILL THEY OPEN THERE DOORS!!!

July 27, 2006 4:01 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

It is a racial issue I agree, Sunland is full of nothing but rich, stiffs, who dont know the difference between a 2 by 4 and a 4 by 4, what would they do with a Home Depot? Probally nothing but irritate the employees with stupid questions. But I think the Home Depot should open up just for the hell of it, I have been closely monitoring the situation, and it cracks me up to see the dumb drama these people put into a situation like this, I live in VA and we have quite a few Home Depots here a lot more than Sunland could ever immagine, lets just say these people (who obviously have no life at all) if they lived here would probally shit bricks for days seeing as 2 Home Depots just opened (one down the road and one in the town no more than 20 miles from here). GO HOME DEPOT!!!

July 27, 2006 4:14 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Sites like this are very beneficial because they expose people like you, Walter Moore. I was impressed with you when we first met at a public function. However, because you have jumped in and made statements about a community you know nothing about, I will never support you because you definitely are not knowledgeable about rural communitities and what their residents want and need.

It is obvious that you don't listen. Your focus is very ridged and you made statements about K-mart that are not true. It is apparent that you don't know the facts, but, chose to speak misinformed anyway. I don't want an uninformed, narrow focused person to run the city of Los Angeles or represent the community of Sunland-Tujunga.

By the way, the K-Mart in S-T was one of their most profitable stores. People came from as far a Sylmar to shop there. However, the property was leased and they were not allowed to keep their store open on that property under Chapter 11 rules. Unfortunately, H.D. made an offer that the owners couldn't refuse because it is a prime piece of property. Also, K-mart is the one that purchased Sears so I am sure the doom that you predict won't happen! Isn't that strange they made that purchase after they had just filed Chapter 11? Since you are an attorney, you should be well aware of the shennigans that big business pull and get away with! By the way, are you on Home Depot's payroll? Since the Home Depot, which is only 7 minutes from S-T, is in the city of San Fernando, not in Los Angeles, you just might want to help the city of L.A. get some of those tax dollars! Who's payroll are you on?

July 27, 2006 4:21 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Walter,
I am extending an invitation to you and
whoever else may be interested to
allow us to give you a guided tour of our town. We will be happy to demonstrate why we believe so strongly
about this issue. Come with an open mind ( I know it may be difficult, but try) and we promise to be cordial and to make the experience
enjoyable and informative.
Weekends are usually best for most of us, and the sooner we can do this the better.
Are you game?

July 27, 2006 4:50 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Walter - you are my new hero! I love your responses on this matter. You have put into words my exact feelings. I lived in Sunland for many years, and you are right on! I don't think you need a personal tour, you already know what your talking about.

Walter for President!

July 27, 2006 7:36 PM  

Blogger Joe B. said:

Walter,
It was just an invite to visit our town. Did I scare you away?

July 28, 2006 7:51 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Dont go Walter, you may come back gay and stupid like all of Sunlands finest and the "great" mayor of L.A.
ignorant about real life issues, and a sad pussy who is afraid of Home Depot!

July 28, 2006 9:27 PM  

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