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Wednesday, December 22, 2004

Tony Villar On The Air (Again), Slams Hahn Big Time

Brian WhitmanAntonio Villaraigosa guested with Brian Whitman on KABC this morning "for the full hour" (Whitman is subbing for the vacationing Doug McIntyre during the holidays - I can relate). This was approxiamately a week after a phone interview with McIntyre.

Among his comments:
  • Mayor Hahn was AWOL during 9/11 and stayed in Washington D.C. for four days, making no effort to return home until a candlelighting ceremony was held.
  • Hahn does not seem to be enjoying being the Mayor.
  • Hahn's administration is the most corrupt since Frank Shaw 70 years ago with investigations by the City Attorney, District Attorney, US Department of Justice, federal and county grand juries and the Ethics Commission.
  • Mayor Hahn has no energy, no drive.
  • Stopped short of calling him boring when prompted by Whitman.
  • Slammed Hahn's airport plan calling for investment in Palmdale and Ontario.
Cause I was chasing the kids around and getting ready to head to the office, I didn't hear the full interview, so feel free to post any additional tidbits.

52 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said:

THAT'S IT? C'MON GIVE ME SOME MORE TONY. If that's all you can come up with "he's boring, doesn't seem like being Mayor," I've never heard such low life crap. If you're gonna slam someone do a better job, but then again we're talking about a person (not dignifying calling him a man) that has his own skeltons i.e. supporting a cocaine drug dealer and writing a letter stating that, against gang injunctions, took money from neighborhood councils, hasn't done anything about enviornmental affairs while sitting on city council in fact hasn't done anything period. I'm waiting for his dirt to hit the fan and from what I'm hearing we will all have a nice New Year's surprise.

December 22, 2004 9:56 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

Want more??? here's more -- As city attorney this mayor lets an ax murderer go and kill again,(he let a person die) he's never ever supported a chief of police that isn't white - his support for chief gates over chief williams is notorius, and we've seen how he felt about bernie. Defended the opening of Sunshine Cyn as city attorney,(poisening our neighborhoods) later changed his mind as a candidate for mayor. Had his fundraiser in charge of the 3 most important depts in this post 9/11 environment(this didn't protect us from terrorism, people could've died because of this). Troy edwards only cared about shaking down fat cats and not figuring out ways to make this city safer. Let FH overbill the city at the cost of adding more cops to the streets.(people have died because we don't have those cops) Agreed to a deal that lets this city lose more money that could've been used for cops this yr. (more folks could've been saved with those cops) FAILED to keep his campaign promises to south LA concerning their leadership. FAILED to keep his promise he made to Richard Close of the Sherman Oaks homeowners assoc 4 yrs ago when he endorsed this mayor. FAILED to bring trusted leadership to this city, hard to do when you have everyone investigating you for virtually everything you've done. FAILED to keep his pledge of the additional cops he said would be in LA by now.
He cut DARE, tried to eliminate the environmental affairs dept and the commission on children, youth and their families, gave easy access to developers and called them "good pals" 4 yrs ago. In fact this mayor "hanged out" with Fitzgerald and Abrams and even bragged about it during the last mayor's race -- yet now he has conveniently "forgotten" everything. This mayor has FAILED to even abide by his own ethics proposal. This mayor lets poor senior citizens stranded out in the cold, instead of using his campaign account to help pay back the money that was LAUNDERED to his campaign from shady criminals.

i can keep going if you like.

blog away dum-dums.

December 22, 2004 10:47 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Just when I thought there was no way to sum up Mayor Hahn's first four years, well 20+ years in office, MEAT comes through again. This stuff ain't made up folks. Checks the papers.

December 22, 2004 11:04 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

OBSERVING FROM THE SIDELINES:

why do you guys get MEAT riled up, everytime he seems to be able to slap you guys back right into the corner. I've been following him since his days at the 4th floor, where he did the same thing, once to me as well. I personally check about 20% everything this guy says, and it seems to check out. I don't know who you are MEAT, but daaaammnnn.

December 22, 2004 11:11 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

If MEAT doesn't work for anyone, who knows if he's telling the truth -- someone should hire this guy.

i think i just saw 5 different TV ads against Hahn in this one posting.

December 22, 2004 11:14 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

If MEAT doesn't work for anyone, who knows if he's telling the truth -- someone should hire this guy.

i think i just saw 5 different TV ads against Hahn in this one posting.

December 22, 2004 11:15 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MR PEEPERS:

Meat, this is the last straw, say this kind of filth one more time, and i'll reveal who you are.

fyi -- I know MEAT, and he doesn't work for any of the candiates, he's a consultant who should be feared.

December 22, 2004 11:16 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

LADY FAN OF MEAT:

we are seeing a legend blogger formed right before our very eyes.

WAY TO GO MEAT!!!

December 22, 2004 11:18 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I guess Mayor Sam should only post crap about Villaraigosa or Bitter Bernie. that's all you clowns seem to care about. Mayor sam has some good articles about other things in the city but all he has to do to get more bloggers is to have that smiling clown villraigosa on here.

December 22, 2004 11:25 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Please. We got Antonio's staff now coming to the aid of MEAT. If Antonio is so great why is there a recall against him? When March or May comes, he won't be mayor or councilmember. Antonio's career will be over. And MEAT's blogging days will be forgotten. Hey, you staffers, shouldn't you be returning constituents calls instead of wasting your time defending MEATHEAD.

December 22, 2004 11:28 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

The reason there is a recall is because Hahns running scared and needed something to distract dum-dums like you regarding Antonio.

Let's see how this works, you make a baseless claim, i respond with FACTS. I then bash Hahn...radio silence. Amazing. Maybe the reason is the Hahn folks have nothing to campaign on, and so instead of offering a vision they complain like 2 yr olds and make excuses for everything.

As for Antonio's staff -- who knows if they are watching this, quite frankly they shouldn't because there's no one here of any significance, i just enjoy blogging from my offices in Topanga.

Blog away dum-dums.

December 22, 2004 11:38 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM ARMANDO:

MEAT is willing to let people know what he does for a living, give his own e-mail address, and even let you know where he sat during the last debate, and all of you anonymous bloggers have the guts to talk smack???

I'd like to see one of you "Anonymous" posters give all of us some insight into who you are, what you do, etc. It's so easy to just go online and say stuff like "Villaraigosa doesn't do anything, he did too much for Kerry, blah blah blah" when you have nothing to lose. What a bunch of cowards.

Keep at it MEAT. For all you know, it's just one lonely person sitting infront of a computer figuring out how to pathetically attack a man from behind a computer because they don't have the balls enough to do so publicly.

December 22, 2004 11:40 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

Once again for the Anonymous cowards -- what i've revealed.

I am a consultant -- e-mail; mayor_meat@yahoo.com

Offices: Topanga

and i was at the debate last night dead center 7 th row, wearing a yellow shirt and a hat.

Thanks Armando, whoever you are.

blog away dum-dums.

December 22, 2004 11:47 AM  

Blogger The Civic-Minded Noodge said:

No question it's fun hashing this stuff out here, but let's face it, none of this really determines who wins the election. LA voters are pretty much uninformed and they like it that way. He who has the big bucks. and the organized canvassers, wins. And I think that's going to be the incumbent.

Given the inertia of city government and the photo-op, sound-bite chasing nature of the challengers, though, I'm beginning to think it won't make much difference WHO wins -- except to consultants and contractors, of course.

Wouldn't it be great if there were a candidate who was both inspiring and also had a substantial plan for governing?

December 22, 2004 12:00 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Armando, it doesn't matter who MEAT is (although I don't think he has told anybody his real name or given an email address that divulges who he is) - what matters is the quality of his information. We all have the right to our opinions, MEAT, too, but MEAT doesn't have the right to have his OWN FACTS.

December 22, 2004 12:25 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM ARMANDO:

To the previous blogger, I say this: I agree.

So let's stop all this childish back and forth talk that talks nothing about any of the candidates, their vision, and what they are claiming to stand for in this election.

Given that you claim that MEAT has his own facts, let's put it to the test. This is to all of us on this freakin' blog: Whenever MEAT or any of you Anonymous posters brings up something that they claim is true, let the next blogger either repute or support their comment with legitimate sources (articles from reputable newspapers, online websites with recognized authors - not anonymous bloggers).

I think if we all agree to do this, then we can all truly start to debate the real issues and challenge one another with substantive facts. This will hopefully take us away from the childish behavior from various bloggers.

If we all began to post like MEAT and MEATEATER, I think we can all walk away from the site at the end of the day with something of value, rather than wonder why people waste their time on posting foolish comments.

December 22, 2004 12:35 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

You're saying Meat is the guy who wears the big yellow hat and yellow shirt?

You mean Meat is the guy who owns Curious George??????? ????????????????????????????????

December 22, 2004 1:48 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I enjoy the dialogue, but let's get back to the mayoral election. Villaraigosa made some hard hitting remarks about Hahn on KABC. I know everyone is having fun with finding out who MEAT is, but let's talk about the facts and opinions he is giving us on this blog.

December 22, 2004 2:11 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I too find it quite amusing that all you people want to talk about is Antonio or Bernie or the Mayor.

The city is crumbling and you keep tuning into your soap operas though.

December 22, 2004 2:20 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I would really like to see a debate on transportation. Last night's debate touched on transportation policy, but not to the extent it deserves. The Mayor of Los Angeles has an important role in seeking federal and state funds. He also sits on the MTA Board and directs LADOT. We need to address this issue with more fervor. We have let this issue slide from the top of the agenda. It is now a problem that has no solution unless the feds or state allocates millions upon millions of dollars not only into public transit, but into congestion relief along our freeways and major arterials. LADOT, MTA, Caltrans, and SCAG have the plans we just need the money and political will.

The environmental focus should be on the Port of Los Angeles. Obviously, the debate touched on that issue last night, but as well know the port contributes a great deal to pollution throughout Los Angeles. The port is an economic engine for the region, but it lacks responsiblity in ensuring clean air and clear water. We need a tough policy on the Port of Los Angeles, not to mention LAX. We need the Mayor and the Commission to take an even tougher stance at not just leveling pollution but reducing it overall.

December 22, 2004 4:13 PM  

Blogger The Civic-Minded Noodge said:

I found it shocking that in a debate about environmental issues, there was so little discussion of DWP, including water and energy conservation and the environmental impact of LA's activities outside the city limits (e.g., Mono and Owens Lakes, the effects of coal incineration in Utah and Nevada).

Hahn's self-congratulatory references to "stopping" DWP's plan to build another coal-burning plant beggar belief, as it was his administration that cooked up the plan in the first place.

And I thought everyone was weaselly about Sunshine Canyon, with the possible exception of Parks, who isn't counting on votes in the East Valley anyway. If we're going to be a "zero-landfill city" then what happens to the trash? Alarcon claims we'll recycle everything? Please. In 2050, MAYBE. Our choices are to deal with solid waste here or to export it elsewhere. And while that may please NIMBYist LA residents, it's hardly environmental leadership.

December 22, 2004 4:43 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I wanted to hear more about Sunshine Canyon Landfill. The City of LA is behind in waste technologies and recycling. It's an enormous endeavor but requires incredible leadership from the Mayor and his appointee to the Bureau of Sanitation. Sunshine Canyon is located but a mile away from the largest source of clean water for LA residents. This open source of clean water (you can see the LA Reservoir driving down the 5 Freeway in either direction) is threatened by the fierce winds that blow up trash and dust at the contaminated dump into the water. Furthermore, the dump was operated illegally for years. Also, Mayor Hahn could have done a better job of imposing strict requirments for the expansion or convincing then Mayor Richard Riordan not to proceed with the expansion of the city portion. I blame Riordan as much as Hahn for the expansion. We need new methods of waste disposal. We can't continue to dump on our communities nor in the middle of the desert. Honest leadership will guide us toward that goal. I don't see that anywhere in the pack of mayoral candidates.

December 22, 2004 4:54 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

AV brings up Hahn's absence during 9/11. With no flights allowed along with other logistical complications, how was the 4 days he was MIA from LA supposed to be resolved and how does AV know that effort wasn't made. Also, no one brings up the cost runs from the result of 9/11. The layers upon layers of expenses continue to this day. LAX expansion (boondoggle that it is) is just one example. It diverted the budget that was slated for such things as increases in LAPD's rank and file.

December 22, 2004 6:56 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Counter MEAT:

As city attorney this mayor lets an ax murderer go and kill again

Counter: The City Attorney’s office handles misdemeanor criminal cases. An ax murderer was facing misdemeanor charges?? Story sounds fishy.

he's never ever supported a chief of police that isn't white - his support for chief gates over chief williams is notorius, and we've seen how he felt about bernie.

Counter: Gloria Molina supported Gates during the Rodney King beating incident and so this doesn’t prove anything.


Defended the opening of Sunshine Cyn as city attorney (poisening our neighborhoods) later changed his mind as a candidate for mayor.

Counter: As City Attorney he ADVISES the Mayor and Council and the Council decided to vote for opening Sunshine Canyon. As Mayor he can ignore the City Attorney's advise and try to get the council to shut down Sunshine Canyon.

Let FH overbill the city at the cost of adding more cops to the streets.(people have died because we don't have those cops) Agreed to a deal that lets this city lose more money that could've been used for cops this yr. (more folks could've been saved with those cops)

Counter: The Controller is responsible for paying the City’s bills. Laura Chick let FH overbill the City. Chick is to chicken to let it be known that her department screwed up in not denying the invoices that went beyond the original contracts parameters, poor contract compliance work.

FAILED to bring trusted leadership to this city, hard to do when you have everyone investigating you for virtually everything you've done.

Counter: Everyone believes that politicians (including Tony) let their campaign supporters have access and get favors. This has been around for years. The real question is did the City suffer from this access. For example, did someone use inferior material after getting a City contract through "pay to play" and people died? Now something like that will get the AVERAGE voter thinking. (FH's contract was awarded under Riordan & Chick failed to monitor those bills before they were paid)

FAILED to keep his pledge of the additional cops he said would be in LA by now.

Counter: He fought hard for Cops in his budget proposal and the Council cut them out of the budget.

He cut DARE, tried to eliminate the environmental affairs dept and the commission on children, youth and their families, …

Counter: You want more cops on the streets then the DARE cops need to be replaced by reserve officers or civilians. This is a cheap political shot by a hack that doesn’t understand the priority of cops on the street. The services of the above departments were going to be consolidated to streamline government, but the liberals wanted the symbolic waste of money of keeping the departments bureaucratic costs. We all want efficient government, until it affects one of our sacred cows.

December 23, 2004 9:04 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I like this MEAT guy. He seems to know more about the City and the 14th Council District than Tony. He has details at his fingertips and knows how to handle criticism. He should be the Councilmember for the 14th District.

The way he responds to questions frankly would be a breathe of fresh air in the 14th. No political bull, just good service and clear answers.

Look at the way he responds to the posts with details and show he cares about addressing questions. He seems like the kind of person that would actually meet with his constituents, even if he has to tell them he can't help them. Tony doesn't do that.

I say, MEAT should be a write in candidate for the 14th Council district if there is a recall. MEAT, MEAT, MEAT for everyone.

Starving? Have some MEAT.
Homeless? Have some MEAT.
Black eye? Have some MEAT.
No job? Have some MEAT

December 23, 2004 9:12 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

To the "COUNTER MEAT" guy -- i give credit where credit is due, nice job. Almost as good as MEATEATER but he has a bit more flash.

All i saw you write were excuses...let's recounter the count.

The ax murderer stuff i'll save when we are closer to election day -- mistake for me to bring out a bazooka so early in the election cycle, I mean i need to finsh with a bang, right guys.

On the darryl gates stuff -- i like the gloria molina line, sounds like whoever wrote this is a hack for hahn -- they tend to use excuses to explain their spin. On this one - i HATE racial politics, but the african american community have few role models in city government to even point too ( i mean Nate Holden and Rita Walters aren't leaders at all) so with mr williams and mr. parks, two men whose ethics and morals were clear -- root out corruption from the rank and file. Mr hahn goes out of his way to support the non-black alternatives -- in BOTH cases -- just seems fishy and during an election cycle totally a legitamit issue.

Sunshine -- yeah that whole ADVISES word that you bolded, love that one. Hey why don't you go and tell kim thompson a commissioner hahn appointed that load of garbage (fyi she ain't supporting hahn, and she's a commissioner of yours, better kick her off, god forbid there be dissent in the ranks). I think Kim Thompson (cool hair by the way) knows the Sunshine issue better than the current mayor and will disagree with that weak post from the hahn hack.

FH -- AHH yes Chick is responsible not me the Mayor. No No No, i don't have FH write me talking points that aren't even ethical --- Chick shouldn't have caught that instead of my office. Mr Pacheco's fundraiser should've been stopped by Chick, not councilman Pacheco who benefitted from it. Mr Dowie's fundraisers should've been stopped by Chick not the mayor whose staff loved the idea, since a senior member of Hahns staff went to FH and a member of FH went to Hahns staff. No No No, this is all LAura Chicks fault, come on guys, ITS LAURA CHICKS FAULT...why won't anyone believe...tear. Ha!

Shady leadership --- Hahns Hack excuse -- hey folks no one has died from pay to play and and everyone does it, so so its OK, right? If you are a Hahn hack and i suspect you are -- you should look into a different career, this line doesn't cut it. Look at the campaign you guys ran 4 yrs ago -- IT WAS ABOUT TRUST. All i am saying is its hard to stand up and say you kept your word mr mayor when you have everyone from 2 grand juries, DA, FBI, City Attorney, City Controller, Ethics Commission and my dog catcher investigating the most investigated mayor since frank shaw. Mayor Sam (Yorty) was a more ethical mayor than lil jimmy.

Failed to keep your more cops pledge -- dude you guys FAILED. stop the excuses ---- no no MEAT, you don't get it, the stupid city council never went for our plan. CUT THE CRAP, The facts are bernie parks and even Antonio are late editions to this game, you had two sessions prior without those two to get your plan through and FAILED. Antonio comes along and puts his money where his mouth is and at least tries, and he's just a councilman, mr mayor. If you were a real leader you would've gotten us the cops by now.

CUT DARE, ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND COMMISSION ON CHILDREN YOUTH AND THEIR FAMILIES. Is it a cheap shot, YES. Do i like to take expensive shots, YES. Do i mix it up every once in a while -- YES. Am i right about my FACTS, yes.


Hey Hahn hack -- may i call you that??? i have a question or two that i need the facts too -- can you help me buddy.

1. In 1992, Hahn returned a $2,000 contribution to Sid Askari in connection with a Board of Zoning Appeals decision. In 2002, Hahn returned $25,000 to the EIDC when they were under investigation for possible misuse of funds. Why did you return the money then, yet now refuse to return money to victims of a mortgage fraud scheme that is being investigated by federal and state prosecuters???

2. Hahn Hack -- maybe you can help me -- What is the difference between taking money from Mr Fitzgerald and mr Abrams and taking money from Lincoln savings and Charles keating????

blog away dum-dums.

December 23, 2004 9:53 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEATEATER:

As a carnivore, I only need to eat MEAT about once a week, but I’m getting hungry. And I think I might nibble on the rest of you, too, while I’m at it.

First of all, the AV team is telegraphing its opposition research a little too aggressively, as has the JH team. You guys are gonna get in big trouble with your bosses if you give away too much of the playbook. Leave something to surprise us all with.

Before getting to MEAT, let me do the nibbling.

Well, AV did stand up to JH’s ill-thought plan to ditch the Environmental Affairs Department, but it was Garcetti and Parks (and Smith I think) who did the heavy lifting. And good point, not sure what AV has done on the environment since he has been in office. A Council File Index search on “environment” and “Villaraigosa mover” yielded eight hits. None of the motions are “environmental” but rather deal with environmental exemption for development projects. Check it out yourself at http://appla1.lacity.org/CFI/

As for later posters, I agree that we need to have a decent transportation debate in this city. Which of these tough-talking candidates will actually stand up to those who are preventing some forward motion in transportation in this city? Will Hertzberg stand up to Gerald Silver when he shoots down a conversation about the 101? Give AV kudos for talking about bringing the Red Line down Wilshire Blvd. further to the west (and credit Tom LaBonge for having the cojones to get that conversation re-started after cowards like Yaroslavsky and Waxman nixed it years ago). Will Parks push through the Expo line? Will Hahn be more aggressive at the MTA? Four years ago, Hahn and Villaraigosa promised the following on transportation (more on this in another post):

(from the LA Times, 2001)

“Transportation

James K. Hahn

Increase the MTA bus fleet; drop the MTA's appeal of a federal lawsuit in which the agency was ordered to buy 350 buses to relieve overcrowding.

Antonio Villaraigosa

Buy 850 buses for the MTA; cut the top bus fare to 50 cents; put 20 high-speed lines on main thoroughfares; drop the MTA's appeal of a federal lawsuit in which the agency was ordered to buy 350 buses to relieve overcrowding.”

I think both men have not succeeded so far (though more buses have been purchased and more rapid buses have been added and the appeal has been dropped).

Also, on DWP’s coal plant, JH does deserve considerable credit on this. Originally, it was Galanter and Garcetti who opposed this and JH was silent. Then, I believe Weiss and others joined and eventually Cardenas was very important in getting this done, but unlike other things that Hahn takes credit for (like the sewer settlement) in which he played no role, he single-handedly (against much DWP opposition) pushed this through in the end.

JH’s administration did not cook up the plan for the Utah coal plant (check with DWP sources). It came from Riordan and was envisioned from within DWP before Hahn was mayor.

Lastly, as for recycling, Alarcón again showed some leadership. I used to not think very highly of the man—look at his bumbling o workers comp reform—but he has been bold. I thought Hertzberg would be the bold one, but he is trying too hard. RA seems more comfortable with the role and actually seems to know the city and city government better.

We can get to close to 100% recycling, especially by mandating it for multi-family apartments and businesses and using more bio-waste recycling. None of the candidates are talking about how much moving from Sunshine will cost, though. Does the city want to pay for the extra cost or not?

OK, on to MEAT.

MEAT SAYS:

As city attorney this mayor lets an ax murderer go and kill again.

MEATEATER SAYS: we need a little more information here, MEAT. I can’t deny this, but don’t become as vague and incendiary as your opponents. I will reserve judgment until you point out what the heck you are talking about.

MEAT SAYS: he's never ever supported a chief of police that isn't white - his support for chief gates over chief williams is notorius, and we've seen how he felt about bernie.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: That is also pretty unsupported and not exactly a well-reasoned argument. As Parks was Williams’ enemy and vice-versa, it would be pretty tough to be against both. And with only two non-white chiefs in our modern history (I don’t know what Hahn thinks of Chief Tomas Sanchez from 1860, for instance), both of whom one can make a convincing case have sucked, this is a dumb point. No one says that Williams was a good chief, and as for BP, see AV’s position below.

More specifically, I cite this from the LA Times:

If you had to make the decision today, would you grant Chief Parks a second five-year term?

James K. Hahn

YES, the chief is a proven leader but must re-focus on the LAPD's top priorities.

*

Antonio R. Villaraigosa

NO, Parks is not "the right person for the job." The chief has not been attentive enough to reform. (1)

Both seem pretty hypocritical (or political) in retrospect, eh? And MEAT, if AV thinks that BP doesn’t remember this, think again (though he dislikes AV much less and will no doubt endorse him in a JH-AV runoff). Kinda makes you wanna vote for Hertzberg or Alarcón, don’t it?

BTW,
In the runoff, they then both shifted their tune, with Hahn saying that he would replace Parks if he didn’t do the job and Villaraigosa saying he would work with the chief if mayor.

MEAT SAYS: Defended the opening of Sunshine Cyn as city attorney,(poisening our neighborhoods) later changed his mind as a candidate for mayor.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: It’s spelled “poisoning”. And as City Attorney, he had to. Rocky had the freedom to go against Sunshine, because this council and this mayor are against Sunshine. When he campaigned, JH, like AV, and every other candidate, pandered to the north valley and came out against Sunshine. I assume everyone else will too this time, though Bernard Parks impressed me by calling for some straight talk on this issue.

MEAT SAYS: Had his fundraiser in charge of the 3 most important depts in this post 9/11 environment (this didn't protect us from terrorism, people could've died because of this). Troy edwards only cared about shaking down fat cats and not figuring out ways to make this city safer.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: “People could have died because of this.” C’mon. Ridiculous. Ranks right up there with Zine’s “Osama Bin Parks” comment for most ridiculous use of post-9/11 rhetoric. We expect more from you MEAT. Agreed that Edwards was way out of his league, but those places aren’t run by deputy mayors in general. And Edwards is an okay guy who did care about things like making the city safer. He just wasn’t super at it. Hahn has shown some leadership with the Conference on Mayors on homeland security stuff, but I wonder who can really bring home the bacon on this one. Bratton is about as good as they come—I’d put him toe-to-toe in DC against anyone and he has brought back resources from the Hill. JH gets credit for this. But again, this is moving away from your previously fact-based and reasoned argument to hackdom.

MEAT SAYS: Let FH overbill the city at the cost of adding more cops to the streets. (people have died because we don't have those cops)

MEATEATER RESPONDS:
Hackdom again. Decent point, though AV has exaggerated the number of officers we could have hired. The PR contracts were over many years (including Riordan years) and would have probably added a few dozen more police officers to the streets. AV makes a good point—these contracts were ridiculous—but we shouldn’t overstate it. My gut (and my contacts at DWP) seem to think this would have just gone back into the DWP (in other words, there wouldn’t have been a bigger transfer to the city if these were cancelled). During the budget fight between mayor and council over police two years ago, a number of councilmembers tried to get the mayor to cut DWP fat and transfer more money to the budget for the deficit and for cops. (BTW, I feel pretty good about the council and JH’s handling of our budget (and honors to Parks for his budgetary prowess) when I read that Chicago faces a $1 billion+ shortfall in a similarly-sized budget and L.A. is in much better shape than Chicago, New York, and California. But I digress)

MEAT SAYS: Agreed to a deal that lets this city lose more money that could've been used for cops this yr. (more folks could've been saved with those cops)

MEATEATER RESPONDS: This is getting lame. One could also write: “Bob Hertzberg/Antonio Villaraigosa/Richard Alarcón mismanaged the state’s money, turning record surpluses into record deficits, causing the state to borrow against the cities and causing MORE…PEOPLE…TO…DIE”. If we are going to truly elevate you to “legendary blogger status” as your girlfriend/alter ego posted above, you have to maintain CREDIBILITY. There is plenty to criticize with all five candidates. I try to find the credit and the criticism for each. You clearly aren’t. But if you are going to be partisan, you’d better be all about the facts, and not dumb rhetoric.

MEAT SAYS: FAILED to keep his campaign promises to south LA concerning their leadership.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: Writing “their leadership” borders on racist. It sounds a lot like “you people”. Wake up, MEAT. South LA ain’t a monolith. And if you are talking specifically about Bernard Parks, see AV above. As for this time around, no one is really paying much attention to south LA at all. AV might if he takes on Martin Ludlow’s anti-gang initiative. JH is keeping a presence (though he has had very weak Af-Am staff for most of his administration) there, Hertzberg is ignoring the area (notice his answer to the environmental racism question in the debate spoke only of all areas getting their “fair share” which seemed more for the Valley than for the Eastside or Southside), and Alarcón has yet to show much in the way of endorsements, credentials, or initiatives for the South LA area or for African-American Angelenos. BP is the wild card. I predict he gets 60% of the Af-Am vote, but no one listens to his endorsement in the runoff. I also predict he gets more votes than folks think.

MEAT SAYS:
FAILED to keep his promise he made to Richard Close of the Sherman Oaks homeowners assoc 4 yrs ago when he endorsed this mayor.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: Be more specific. And I think that AV and JH are the same on the whole secession thing. That will be interesting in a runoff, to see if Valley leadership hate JH so much that they will go with someone who campaigned just as vigorously against secession, AV. Obviously, if Hertzberg or Alarcón make the runoff, they are natural, and BP flirting with secession could pick him up some votes.

MEAT SAYS: FAILED to bring trusted leadership to this city, hard to do when you have everyone investigating you for virtually everything you've done.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: Hackdom rhetoric. Tough for me to get through your posting.

MEAT SAYS: FAILED to keep his pledge of the additional cops he said would be in LA by now.

MEATEATER RESPONDS: What pledge? I was at many of the debates and I never heard a specific number. And isn’t this partially the fault of the council when they wouldn’t vote for more cops?

MEAT SAYS: He cut DARE, tried to eliminate the environmental affairs dept and the commission on children, youth and their families, gave easy access to developers and called them "good pals" 4 yrs ago.

In fact this mayor "hanged out" with Fitzgerald and Abrams and even bragged about it during the last mayor's race -- yet now he has conveniently "forgotten" everything.

MEATEATER REPSONDS: Everyone cut DARE, which is a lame program (at least it was in my kid’s school), and were able to hire more police officers because of it (check the transcripts from the budget debate that year). And it was Greuel who proposed cutting Children, Youth, and their Families (and Women’s Commission and others) in the name of “efficiency” initially. Hahn jumped on that ill thought out bandwagon.

As for the hanging out, this is an important point. JH’s opponents claim he is directly involved with folks who I bet he barely knows. I blame this mayor for his association and for presiding over a campaign structure that let this happen. But that is different than being a puppetmaster. Which is why I think no indictment ever lands on him. Without that, this remains pretty insider stuff. He is pretty conveniently forgetting, but there are probably a few hundred folks that have really helped him (as have helped AV, BH, etc.) over the years and none of these guys know whether they are bad guys. That’s why this whole stinking system is messed up.

MEAT SAYS: This mayor has FAILED to even abide by his own ethics proposal. This mayor lets poor senior citizens stranded out in the cold, instead of using his campaign account to help pay back the money that was LAUNDERED to his campaign from shady criminals.

MEATEATER: Please look at the grammar above, Mr. Legend. It makes no sense. And not sure about the senior stuff—please post specifics. His own ethics proposals have been cynical, but why won’t this council step up and pass them? And Parks, who fought the most about ethics stuff in one of his first debates in council, also found religion late. Bottom line is that each of these five guys has benefited from the system and I don’t trust true reform to come from any of them. I can post old articles about AV, RA, and BH on this front. And BP, with his association with fathers of drug dealers and launderers (according to the LA Times), ain’t a saint neither.


Preview of coming attractions: what did JH and AV promise last time? Did they deliver? And bonus: INACCURACIES MENTIONED IN THE LAST DEBATE:

Stay tuned.

December 23, 2004 9:56 AM  

Blogger Mayor Sam said:

Greetings from Arizona...

It appears that many of you have your Christmas shopping complete and are spending your time doing OR here on my blog.

For Christ sakes...get a LIFE! But in the meantime go to my gift shop and buy lots of crap!

Merry Christmas and yes that is MERRY CHRISTMAS and none of this God damn HAPPY HOLIDAYS bullshit.

Now back to the egg nog. :)

Cheers,
Mayor Sam

December 23, 2004 11:02 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

MEATEATER --- Most of the spelling errors come from not proofing my work once typed - i apologize.

i get the funny feeling in my belly that you are a reporter -- who covers the city council.

As for opposition research -- i am not on Antonio's opposition research team, because i am not on any of his payrolls.

Am i a hack -- yes.

FYI -- On the valley secession issue i brought up --- Jim Hahn and Antonio were both against secession, but there is a reason why Antonio never chaired Jim Hahns campaign as he had asked. Because Jim Hahn runs unhonorbale campaigns -- the valley activists understood each mans position, what inflamed them was the characterization of their whole campaign as being some sort of gamble. Antonio campaigned against secession speaking to our better half, our hopeful half about why the city should stay together, Hahn spoke based on FEAR. As a hack, fear works, as a person who knows how to put political coaltions together, Hahn is toast in the valley -- Antonio isn't.

blog away.

December 23, 2004 11:37 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEATEATER:

MEAT, you want to put a friendly wager on what order the candidates come in in the Valley? Winner gets a county seal?

Put the order down (and percentages if you are interested).

Anyone else is welcome, too. But I don't think that AV beats Hahn in the Valley. But I don't think Hahn necessarily comes in first in the Valley either. Most interesting curveball is whether or not Hertzberg's money gives him a better vote than Alarcon.

As for the reporter inquiry, I'll take it as a compliment.

And as for Mayor Sam: You're dead, so you're one to talk about getting a life.

December 23, 2004 12:58 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM MEAT:

I don't think Antonio or Hahn get first in the primary.

As for the primary --

1. Hertzberg -- i'll say 33%
2. Antonio -- Alarcon margin of error - 22-25% each
3. Hahn -- 15%
4 Parks -- 5% or below

As for the run-off Antonio beats Hahn - 52-48.

Anyone else??

blog away.

December 23, 2004 1:20 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

How does AV or JH get in the primary if they don't take first and second?

Its going to be Hugsberg and Antonio in the runoff.

December 23, 2004 1:22 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

So no one is giving Hahn a chance huh? I don't know. I wouldn't cancel the man out just yet. Just a thought.

December 23, 2004 2:29 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

FROM ARMANDO:

To the previous blogger, MEAT was referring to what he believes will be the results in the Valley. MEAT should have made that clear in his comments, but with all the "dum-dums" that he has to fight off, I can see where he missed that.

My opinion, I think the Valley will break down in the primary like this:

Hertzberg: 30%
Villaraigosa: 23%
Hahn: 22%
Alarcon: 20%
Parks: 5%

I think that Hertzberg's $$$ will allow him more resources to promote himself in the Valley to develop his base and bring out Hahn's lack of genuine interest in the Valley. I doubt that he'll be able to replicate those results anywhere else in the city, but that's what his warchest is for.

So that's my guess on how'll it will all come out. I guess we don't have too long to see if it does come out that way.

Best holiday wishes to all (yes, even MEAT), enjoy this time with your family and loved ones, and let's keep the great chats rollin' in 2005. Let's use this latest exchange of ideas as an example of what I think the 4th Floor Blog wanted to achieve when it was originally created and what Mayor Sam and the rest of the team here wanted to continue supporting.

December 23, 2004 3:40 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Valley:

Hertzberg
Alarcon
Villaraigosa
Hahn
Parks

Citywide:

Villaraigosa
Hertzberg
Hahn
Parks
Alarcon

December 23, 2004 4:08 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Don't erase this thread, Mayor Sam!

Valley:
Hertzberg 32%
Hahn 27%
Villaraigosa 23%
Alarcon 12%
Parks 6%
Rest 1%

Citywide
Hahn 29
Villaraigosa 25
Hertzberg 22
Parks 12
Alarcon 10
Rest 2

December 23, 2004 4:55 PM  

Blogger Mayor Sam said:

Don't tell me how to run my god damn blog, tinhorn!

In the meantime, its Hertzberg, Alarcon, Bitter Bernie, Villar and then Poopy in the Valley.

City as a whole its Villar, Hertzberg, Poopy, Bitter and Alarcon.

December 23, 2004 7:47 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Do you guys really think people in the Valley are going to forget that Hertzberg took money from BFI? That Tony took money from ENRON? People have had it with top companies taking money from the working class and that's what TONY did. Hertzberg has no clue what's going on in the city because he's still campaigning on the school issue. Not one candidate with the exception of Hahn has any clue or idea how to get more officers NOW. Public Safety should be the top priority. IF they don't find the money to hire more officers SOON we will lag further behind all the major big cities in the US. City council doesn't have the same mentality as the other big cities that put law enforcement #1 on their agenda. That is truly the saddess fact of all this rhetoic.

December 23, 2004 8:02 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Do you guys really think people in the Valley are going to forget that Hertzberg took money from BFI? That Tony took money from ENRON? People have had it with top companies taking money from the working class and that's what TONY did. Hertzberg has no clue what's going on in the city because he's still campaigning on the school issue. Not one candidate with the exception of Hahn has any clue or idea how to get more officers NOW. Public Safety should be the top priority. IF they don't find the money to hire more officers SOON we will lag further behind all the major big cities in the US. City council doesn't have the same mentality as the other big cities that put law enforcement #1 on their agenda. That is truly the saddess fact of all this rhetoic.

December 23, 2004 8:02 PM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

What about the polls on the eastside??? My motto right now is ANYONE BUT HAHN (ABH). Parks has no chance for the run-off so he does not count but I do like the fact that he attacks Hahn all the time. He backs it up with proof all the time. No empty statements from him but this will hurt him because he has no real platform. Do not sleep on the Eastside. I was reading an earlier blog and it said Antonio said he would get 80% of the eastside no matter what. Is this true? I do not like arrogant people and the eastside to be taken for granted. Does anyone know if this is true? I do hear he is out of the state alot and not in our district much but as long as things get done, I am not comlaining. Back to my point, Hahn needs to go!!!

December 29, 2004 7:34 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

What do you mean no platform? In Parks' short time on the Council, he has only 1.) become the only hope Los Angeles ever has in getting an NFL team 2.) helped pass the budget, which is not easy considering how the mayor throws money away 3.) developed an LAX Modernization Plan that not only makes more sense than the current one, it's less expensive 4.) Continued to press for the end of the three-day workweek. What have the other candidates done in the same time period? Oh, and just in case I had to remind you, he was a police officer for 30+ years(4 of those years as Chief)... making him the only candidate other than the mayor to hold a citywide position. But, you're right... he has no platform.

December 29, 2004 8:17 PM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

Okay you made a point but I still have a gripe with him the way he handled issues in Hollembeck and Northeast divisions. When crime was up when he was Chief he paid no attention to the eastside and did not want to work with the people. He divided people instead of bringing them together. Don't see how this makes for a good Mayor. It was always the Chief's way or no way at all. What about the Senior Lead officers, when he took them away he took away the voice of the people. They have never been the same since....As for his platform #1) Yes but when a New Mayor comes in they will be the new lead 2)The budget is his job 3)Good point 4)I think the three day work week has improved morale and works fine. If you have statistics that show it is not working let me know.

December 30, 2004 10:38 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

First of all, you have to be more specific when you say things like: "He wouldn't work with the people". What exactly does that mean? It's the same when people say "Rampart". No one is specific. If they were, they would remember that he discovered Rampart after then City Attorney Hahn did nothing about it(read the Daily News)

And, people are quick to say that crime went up when he was Chief, but the statistics don't match. He brought crime down lower than it had been in decades during his first couple of years. And even though crime went up for the rest of his term, it was still significantly lower than it had been under Willie Williams. That's also something no one points out. Do you know what kind of shape the LAPD was in when he took over for Williams? If anybody's the scapegoat, it would be W.W.

On the NFL issue, there's no one else out there whose better capable to take the lead because 1.) L.A. only has one possible site and it's the Coliseum, which is in his district, 2.) He's the Coliseum Commission President and 3.) He's the only one who has a relationship with the NFL. Because of that, the Commission and the NFL have been negotiating since earlier this year.

He's involved in more issues than any other candidate(the mayor included)

December 30, 2004 10:54 AM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

Okay Bernie Parks Jr., you make good points but the point I want to make is that it is always Bernie Parks way (Maybe even Bobbie Parks way) or no way at all. Ask anyone who has has to deal with him. To stubborn to get the job done and move forward. Not saying he is not smart or a good Councilmember, but this does not mean he will be a good Mayor. A Mayor needs to work with everyone, and move the City forward and he cannot be stubborn. Compromise is not in Bernie's vocab. He tends to divide rather than bring people together.

December 30, 2004 11:12 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Bitter Bernie is only running because he never got over being dumped as Chief. And as the city now has seen Bratton is one of our best. Bernie made us lose 1,000 officers. They were leaving in droves. 3-12 schedule has been the best thing for LAPD and Bitter Bernie is lying and misleading the public. Let us not forget RAMPART. He tried to cover it up no matter what Jr. says to the press. I guarantee when the Blue Ribbon Panel comes out they will report what the book "Labrynith" by Randall Sullivan states in his book. Bernie knew about Rampart long before it broke and tried to cover it up for his friends. People forget City Council ALSO DUMPED

December 30, 2004 12:16 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Bitter Bernie is only running because he never got over being dumped as Chief. And as the city now has seen Bratton is one of our best. Bernie made us lose 1,000 officers. They were leaving in droves. 3-12 schedule has been the best thing for LAPD and Bitter Bernie is lying and misleading the public. Let us not forget RAMPART. He tried to cover it up no matter what Jr. says to the press. I guarantee when the Blue Ribbon Panel comes out they will report what the book "Labrynith" by Randall Sullivan states in his book. Bernie knew about Rampart long before it broke and tried to cover it up for his friends. People forget City Council ALSO DUMPED him as chief. He doesn't like Bratton because he's doing a far superior job then Bernie ever did.

December 30, 2004 12:17 PM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

Is it true Bernie could of stopped the Rampart scandal way before it came public? I heard he has one of the officers followed and they found out he was robbing banks. One day they reported that the officer was indeed robbing banks but they also reported that the get away driver was Parks neice or a relative of Parks. He then had the investigation stopped immediately and the officer not followed anymore. The LAPD officer tuned out to be one of the central figures in the rampart scandal.

December 30, 2004 1:22 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

If that last post is true, why haven't Parks' family members been arrested? With the microscope that he's under, it would be impossible to hide that if it were true. Do you have any real proof of this or are you just spouting some of that famous PPL bull! I thought we were offering substance with our arguments.

December 30, 2004 5:56 PM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

Your right, I do not have the proof. I was asking if it was true. Maybe we can kill the rumor now. What other lies about Bernie has the PPL or others spread? What about the truth why one of his relatives was murdered? Was she a gang member? What about the connection to Deputy Chief Moore? I heard he was a very close personal friend.

December 30, 2004 6:59 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Whether or not she was a gang member(and she wasn't) is of little importance in terms of judging him. It was simply a family tragedy, that his family is still having trouble getting over.

As for Maurice Moore, his son was the criminal... not him. M.M. has never been charged with anything. There have been accusations, but none of them have been proven. Also, they were in the department together for decades. Of course they had a professional relationship, especially when you consider that when they started, the department would only allow blacks to work together... not with other races.

December 31, 2004 10:27 AM  

Blogger CD14Lover said:

Thanks for the info. I meant no harm to his family or him just wanted the facts. Will not mention it again.

On another note....I like the way this post has turned into a post abut Bernie. Take that Mayor Sam....People are interested about others than just Tony V.

I think since he is the most controverial of them all, (true or perceived) that is why you are getting the most posts. I say if you wouldl ike more hits and posts keep talking about Tony V.

December 31, 2004 12:41 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Fact...and this isn't the PPL, Deputy Chief Moore was investigated by the FBI and IRS for laundering his son's drug money. Bitter Bernie knowing full well this investigation was ongoing still promoted Moore to Deputy Chief. Read the book Labyrinth by Randall Sullivan. It states the facts on Rampart and nails Bernie on how he stopped the investigation. How Perez was in his home, how he helped Mack get recruited etc.etc. On his niece the fact is she wasn't a gang member however, the guy she was with in the car when she got shot was a big time gangbanger. Sadly, they were aiming for him.

January 03, 2005 11:52 AM  

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