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Wednesday, May 31, 2006

Open Thread for Wednesday

California Proposition 187 was a 1994 ballot initiative designed to deny illegal immigrants social services, health care, and public education. It was introduced by assemblyman Dick Mountjoy (Republican from Monrovia, California) as the Save Our State initiative. A number of other organizations were involved in bringing it to the voters. It passed with 59% of the vote, but was overturned by a federal court.

Proposition 187 included several additions to the law, falling into two categories.

* All law enforcement agents who suspect that a person who has been arrested is in violation of immigration laws must investigate the detainee's immigration status, and if they find evidence of illegality they must report it to the attorney general of California, and to the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). Local governments are prohibited from doing anything to impair the fulfillment of this requirement. The attorney general must keep records on all such cases and make them available to any other government entity that wishes to inspect them.
* No one may receive public benefits until they have proven their legal right to reside in the country. If anyone applies for benefits and is suspected by government agents of being illegal, those agents must report in writing to the enforcement authorities. Emergency medical care is exempted as required by federal law but all other medical benefits have the same test as above. Primary and secondary education is explicitly included.

Governor Pete Wilson was a prominent supporter. Opponents included State Senator Art Torres, who referred to Prop. 187 as "the last gasp of white America in California." The proposition came before voters on the November 8, 1994 general election, where it received 59% of the vote. It became law the next day. While its prominent advocates were political conservatives, some liberals (such as Los Angeles-based radio talk-show host Tom Leykis) also favored it, on the grounds that making life more difficult for illegal immigrants might result in fewer of them entering the state, creating labor shortages which could drive up wages for the lowest-paid workers. Meanwhile, some prominent conservatives, like businessman and failed GOP gubernatorial candidate Ron Unz, opposed the initiatve.

On October 15, between 70,000 and 250,000 people, primarily Latino, marched in downtown Los Angeles against the measure.

Its constitutionality was immediately challenged by several lawsuits. On November 11, 1994, federal judge Matthew Byrne issued a temporary restraining order against it, on grounds that it exceeded state authority in the federal realm of immigration. The case worked its way through the courts. The multiple cases were consolidated and brought before judge Mariana Pfaelzer. In 1998, newly elected Governor Gray Davis (who had opposed the proposition) had the case brought before mediation. Following this, he dropped the appeals process before the courts, effectively killing the law.

Some political analysts cite Wilson's embrace of Prop. 187 as a reason for the California Republican Party's failure to win-over Latino voters.


Anonymous Anonymous said:

Prop. 187 was the triumph of frustration over common sense, and it got what it deserved. Subsequent stubborn attempts to revisit the doctrine of trying to punish immigrants continues to ignore the reality that keeping kids out of school and families away from health care will just cost everyone more than illegal immigration already does.

The anti-immigrant crew should can the sanctimony and deal with things the way they are.

May 30, 2006 8:33 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

We're not discussing legal immigrants. Those are invited guests. We're discussing ill-legal immigrants. Those are uninvited, and therefore criminals.

So I guess you don't mind paying for food, clothes, housing, education and medical care for un-invited guests in your home?

Well I do and have every right to say so. And when I see these un-invited guests picketing and demanding me to take the food out of my children's mouth, lower the education standards for my children, steal the medical care leaving me to pay their bill I am pissed.

It bothers me you aren't.

May 30, 2006 8:49 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Who needs 187? How about campaign finance reform?

Gilbert Cedillo for State Senate
State Senate District 22

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May 30, 2006 9:20 PM  

Blogger The Unsomnambulist said:

Thanks for the history lesson on this.
Don't know if 187 was necessarily racist, but clearly inhumane.
By the way, being illegal doesn't equate being a criminal any more than someone who's driving on expired tags is a criminal.
The act of hopping the border, or falsifying documents to gain employment, are both illegal acts. But by just being in the United States is not a crime.
And this presumption that illegal immigration has an overall negative effect on education is without merit - parents who dont give a crap about their kids education has always been, and will always be, the root of poor education. Illegals come here with a vested interest in their children's futures... and for that, they're only helping improve the classroom environment.

May 30, 2006 10:02 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Where is Ward Conerly when you need him? Damn!

May 31, 2006 4:59 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

We wish this was just about illegals, but too many of the pro-187 crew betray their anti-Latino bias in various ways and, thus, the ugly truth behind the rhetoric.

The bottom line is that it's the law of the land to educate all kids and it makes good sense to do so unless you'd rather they truly become burdens on the taxpayers by ending up in jail or on welfare, or worse (if there is a "worse"). Yes, it's more complicated to educate a multi-cultural, multi-lingual student body, but we'll figure it out or fail to do so at our peril. That challenge exists whether the students are legal, undocumented or Martians.

And, as for medical care, we already take care of indigent patients at great expense to taxpayers. Refusing to take care of undocumenteds would just expose the rest of us to diseases and epidemics that aren't the fault of illegals, don't respect community boundaries and don't ask to see our passports or green cards before they infect us. Bird flu, anyone?

Maybe our real problem is that somewhere along the line we decided that all this good stuff America provides us is an entitlement we shouldn't have to pay full price for, no matter who is taking advantage of it. That leaves us willing to short change the public sector at every turn and pissed off at everyone, be they politicians, immigrants or our neighbors, who we think might force us to look in the mirror when we wonder why services aren't what we think they should be.

May 31, 2006 5:28 AM  

Blogger Walter Moore said:

Six billion people live on this planet, most of them in poverty. Shall we let them all in to show how fair and compassionate we are? Do we have a moral obligation to commit national financial suicide?

May 31, 2006 6:42 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I'm sick and tired of people saying "being illegal doesn't equate being a criminal." Stop making excuses for them. They know damn well when they cross that border they're doing it ILLEGALLY. The law is the law. If someone KNOWINGLY goes through a red light it's breaking the law. That's what these people are doing. The government is responsible for the illegal problem. After Prop 187 they aren't enforcing it but enabling the illegals to get FREE services. If the govt. stopped giving them food stamps, the checks for milk, cheese for all the damn kids they're having, and other programs they wouldn't come here. In Mexico they all tell each other you won't believe all the stuff we get FREE in LA. Wake up people!!! LA is becoming a second Tijuana.

May 31, 2006 7:27 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

This is not "anti-hispanic," or anti-immigrant, this is anti-ILLEGAL immigration. Trying to reframe the issue is transparent and disingenuous. Nations have the right and moral duty to protect and secure their borders, moreso than ever after 9/11. We simply cannot afford to further import poverty from third world nations so amoral multi-nationals and contractors have a continued supply of cheap, exploitable labor. After our borders are finally secure, then the other nations will be forced to reform and help their own people.

May 31, 2006 8:04 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Charity begins at home!

This is MY country....not millions of illegals. Prop 187 was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and everyone knows we would not be in this mess if it has not been overturned.

The government and all the slimy Mexicans at City Hall WORK FOR US!!!! We will FIRE EVERY ONE OF THEIR SORRY ASSES.


I don't give a shit what anyone else says.....we are the only ones who count. And we will count the OBL's OUT!!!!!

It wasn't hard for Mexico to deport 20M illegals to the US....AND IT WON'T BE HARD FOR THE US TO DEPORT THEM RIGHT BACK TO MEXICO.

What's the problem? It's a two hour bus trip.

May 31, 2006 8:20 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

relative to the reappointment of Mr. Jeffrey J. Daar to the Rent Adjustment Commission.

IS THIS THE SAME JEFFREY DAAR WHO IS THE PREZ OF SFV DEMOCRATIC PARTY? Isn't this a conflict of interest? Why would he want this commission appointment?

May 31, 2006 8:32 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

That is the same Jeff Daar. He is being reappointed and I'm glad. He did a lot of good work there in the past four years.

Go check his record.

May 31, 2006 9:53 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I note that the French are now reaping the benefits of the most liberal immigration laws in the world.

May 31, 2006 10:43 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

How can city council pass a motion regarding not using abusive words or being disrespectful in council if that's everyone's 1st ammendment right? And will this motion affect ALL city meetings or just city council? Don't they speak for the entire city?

May 31, 2006 10:56 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

California is now a Latino state, just as it once was. I'm not mad at them. Oh well. Time for me to leave, as opportunity dries up for non-Latinos.

May 31, 2006 12:52 PM  

Blogger dgarzila said:

did anyone see that today in city Council .

I had to go to the doctors office today.

I will watch tomorrow.

I figure they think they deserve respect , when they sometime don't have enough resepect to listen to us.

I know when I am speaking though, It is important to understand who your council person is nad if they are lookng at you it should suffice.

I know Ed Reyes , Jan Perry , Eric Garcetti , and jose Huizar will look at me when I speak . But he rest are too busy talking with their legislative deputies. If you are there you will understand why.

These legislative deputies are their right hand people giving them the ino and updates on issues.

It is a lot of work at City Hall during a council session , you can't just sit in your chair. Stuff is getting doene 24/7 in the lives of these people.

May 31, 2006 1:29 PM  

Blogger Matt said:

IS THIS THE SAME JEFFREY DAAR WHO IS THE PREZ OF SFV DEMOCRATIC PARTY? Isn't this a conflict of interest? Why would he want this commission appointment?

Am I missing something, or are you trying to say that being a Democrat should exclude someone from being on a government commission?

Some warped outlooks on this board.

May 31, 2006 5:35 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

It's embarrassing to me as an AMERICAN that you are not outraged over the stealing of AMERICA by ill-legal immigrants. I am outraged. Everyday I go to work to take care of my family and am outraged that my taxes are higher. My children have to be in private school (therefore I have to pay tuition instead of having them at public school) so they are not dumbed down by students who cannot speak english and don't know the ABC's or can't count to ten. I did have them in public school till I found out one of my children was in an ESL class (english as a second language) and that she was far behind the other students at her grade level in other classrooms. I didn't even know she was in that class. No one told me, I would have never know until I realized after talking with some other parents. How fair is that. I am so tired of the bull I read on this blog from those of you who put ill-legals above legals, Above citizens. I am tired of people trying to make me or anyone else feel bad we have so much more than the immigrants.

EXCUSE ME, they are not immigrants, they are ILL-LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. And it's ill-legal to steal, ill-legal to murder, ill-legal to drive without a driver's license, ill-legal to steal someone else's identity, etc. We call these criminal actions.

Stop making it seem like we are the criminals because we're against this type of behavior. It's not ok to steal america.

Why are we a nation if we can't protect our boarders? What's the benefit of paying federal taxes. Why not be a country of California?

May 31, 2006 10:59 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

The treatment ill-legal immigrants would have received under 187 is better than the treatment immigrants in Mexico get now...think about it...

May 31, 2006 11:10 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

City Council was hilarious yesterday on the abusive language. The members had the nerve to repeatedly state that the chambers should be a place of respect. Who are they kidding? They don't give anyone respect but now are asking for it. I agree that something needs to be done about the psychos who show up and speak. City council members need to look at themselves first when talking about respect. How many times do people have to tell them to pay attention? They only have 3 meetings per week, is that too much to ask?

June 01, 2006 7:11 AM  

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