Lesson for Sunland-Tujunga Home Depot Opponents: Innovate and Thrive
People ask me "Mayor Sam - why do you give the good folks of Sunland-Tujunga such a bad time about Home Depot?"My answer is I have no beef with the people in Sunland-Tujunga. I just believe a private business owner has the right to operate without government interference. I also have a big issue with self-appointed NIMBYs especially when those NIMBYs are allegedly bought and paid for by the one of the competitors of Home Depot.
Incidentally the hypocritical mouth-waggers of the No2HomeDepot campaign attempt to suggest that both Mayor Villaraigosa and this old, dead Republican mayor are being paid off by Home Depot. I can't speak for Antonio, but I have not received a dime from Home Depot. However they find no fault allegedly accepting contributions from the Do It Center Hardware Store and are quite brazen about it.
Click here for a list of the Sunland-Tujunga hardware related businesses that are opposing Home Depot surely for their own profit.
But anyway, I digress. One of the arguments against the opening of the Home Depot store in Sunland-Tujunga is the following:
The proposed Home Depot, with its' predatory pricing, will drive many of our Mom & Pop Hardware and In Home Services stores out of business.However at least one hardware store not too far from Sunland-Tujunga and in close proximity to another Home Depot location has found that it can not just co-exist with the big box retailer but thrive as well.
The LA Times reports today that 101 year old Virgil's Glendale Hardware has managed to prosper despite the presence of Home Depot.
Indeed Virgil's at first had trouble when Home Depot came to town. However new ownership took control of the store and begin to make significant changes. The product mix was changed, hard to find items not available at Home Depot were added and customer service was enhanced. To top it off, the store got a makeover to make it more appealing to female customers who know make up over half the customers. Profits have never been better and the owners have considered opening additional stores.
If the stores in Sunland-Tujunga are afraid that Home Depot will chew into their sales, its on them to improve their service and offerings. Its not up to the local government to protect them from the free market.
Posted by Mayor Sam @ 1/25/2007 12:15:00 AM
33 Comments:
First M.S. Home Depot isn’t private business. It’s a public corporation. As a business owner I can agree that government shouldn’t interfere with my business. However, there are laws and rules I MUST abide by to be sure my place of business is SAFE for the public who shop at my store. I must be sure of accessibility, safety hazards, hazardous waste, ingress and egress, zoning, parking, public works. In short, I need to pass all environmental and safety rules to be able to open my doors. What makes my little small business any different than a mega-giant Home Depot warehouse? Why do I need to go through that laundry list of government requirements and not Home Depot? This proposed store is AVOIDING ALL ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW and they are doing so “ON PURPOSE”. Every person in Sunland-Tujunga that I talk to (and it’s a big number of people) on an absolute daily basis say that Home Depot is bad for this community. Why so many people M.S.? No one wants it and they can’t understand why the City would let it go this far. It further degrades the people’s trust in the City. The Sunland-Tujunga community is “united”. No Home Depot in Sunland-Tujunga. Not now, not ever.
Now…as for Virgil’s. Totally different store than a Home Depot and definitely not a warehouse. It is a small store. They even sell fresh eggs! How can you even think of making a comparison? The Maniscalchi’s have done a fine job with the store since buying it. They have also done a lot of other great things for their community.
Things made in China as cheaply as possible, sold to people who have no benefits, so they can keep up their homes with products priced as cheaply as possible, installed by undocumented laborers working as cheaply as possible...
Gee, Mayor, what's not to like about that? It's the free market dream!
Your list of businesses that oppose Home Depot woefully incomplete, MS.
As for the list you have posted:
Do It Center
Foothill Hardware
Merithews Hardware
Mariosols Nursery
Bountiful Gardens
Sunland Water Gardens
Champion Building Supplies
Armstrongs Nursery
Family Nursery
They are all contributors to the No Home Depot Campaign , as well.
Do you get it now, MS?
This is a community united, fighting to stop an unwanted corporation!
The contributions to the NHDC are coming from all over the place, but mostly from the residents, and no one is "bought or sold". That's what Home Depot does when it donates money to the Mayor, lobbys the City and contributes $25,000 to the Yes on prop R" group.
You're missing the connection of the lawyers and consultants -- and their connections to the local pols.
Excuse me, but you don't really show this is a "community campaign" merely by listing businesses that would have to compete with a new Home Depot, i.e., nurseries and building supply stores. On the contrary, you seem to be proving Mayor Sam's point!
To 1:42 a.m. - You make it sound as Home Depot is a government agency - it is a private business irrespective of its ownership.
The use of Virgil's as an example was not to apples to apples compare them to HD but to counter the claim of the Sunland wackos that HD will destroy all the local businesses, which is simply not true.
To Joe - good points. However even the small local businesses are doing the same thing directly or indirectly. If an individual isn't keen on Home Depot's business practices then they should not shop there. It is dishonest and morally wrong to get HD's potential competitors to pay off government to make happen what they can not or will not on their own.
Right on Walter. The poster, yet another dumbshit who should not blog without thinking, doesn't understand we were focusing on the businesses that have an economic interest to oppose Home Depot. It makes little difference to me in this case if Joe Blow's Liquor Store is against HD.
Speaking though of some of those businesses, I find interesting a few building contractors are opposed to the HD. If I were someone seeking construction services I would seriously question the competency and judgement of those firms. I don't understand the business logic of opposing a potential local supply of lower cost and wider selection of building supplies. As a businessperson, I want to find the best price for my raw materials. Interesting.
Ahh, the crazy people in Sunland/Tujunga. Several of us fight for carpool duty on Thursdays so we can see the three sad little sign carriers. We've seen better signs at a high school election.
This morning they were up to nine people.
No, MS's point was that the No Home Depot campaign had been bought and sold by ONE of HD's competitors.
I was trying to show that just about every competitor contributes to the NHDC. Read the frigging story next time WALLY!
Why is it necessary to degrade people who do not agree with you, calling them dumbshit, wacko, etc?
It proves lack of manners, knowledge of the issue as well as intelligence and the ability to debate fairly. I will not give credibility to such a person nor am I interested in any point they want to make. I am already tuned out!
Regarding Contractors opposing Home Depot. Home Depot is not only a Warehouse, but, Contractors as well. Home Depot has salaried contractors on their payroll that would be competing with their community's local contractor businesses for all types of projects. Home Depot is trying to put them out of business by hiring them for less money than they would make as independent contractors. It does not take a lot of effort to figure out why they don't want Home Depot in their community! They want to keep their small businesses in tact. Did anyone catch the TV news about how unhappy people are with Home Depot's staff contractor's Everyone deserves better than Home Depot's proven shoddy work! This is a wake up call. If they are successful in driving out all competition, Home Depot is what everyone has to look forward to. Boycott Home Depot, they are not "Neighborhood Friendly" as their propoganda claims!
I forget the name of it, but there was an independent hardware store at San Fernando and Los Feliz. They went out of business and while it might have had to do with the owner retiring I was told it was also because of the Home Depot.
This site has probably covered it, but here's more on one of Home Depot's lobbyists:
http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/003855.html
This has probably been covered here as well, but the burghers of Atwater Village are also opposing the proposed Home Depot at the former KMart location at San Fernando and Fletcher.
Mayor Sam said, "I also have a big issue with self-appointed NIMBYs especially when those NIMBYs are allegedly bought and paid for by the one of the competitors of Home Depot."
Mayor Sam you are without a doubt the nastiest, stupidist person I have ever encountered. Yes, I am a Sunland Tujunga NIMBY and I am so very, very proud of it. I have the guts to stand up for what I believe in - that makes me an honorable and upright citizen for that is what America is all about!
No, I absolutely do not want a Home Depot in my back yard. And I have that right without being accused of accepting anybody's bribery. No one, Sir, has ever or will ever buy and sell me. How dare you?
Nobody has to convince me to hate the idea of a Home Depot in my little, hilly rural community, particularly when Home Depot and the city are breaking the law by being there in spite of our long and hard work to create our Specific Plan which states that Change of Use and Structural Alterations are a "Significan Project" which requires an environmental review.
You want to hate someone, hate the corrupt City Planning official, and whoever might be behind his actions, for using his discretionary power to allow what is wrong and inconsistent with our Specific Plan.
We, NIMBY's have everything at stake -what do you have at stake? Home Depot stock? Well, I would suggest selling. It is no longer a good investment. Their stores are in a downslide and the public knows it, because they see it if they shop there.
It is less and less desirable to enter one of Home Depot's understocked, poor serviced, trashed warehouses - unsafe warehouse in our case - or have you heard about the collapsed roof and lack of earthquake secure protection? Just ask the expert who testified at the hearing, Mr. Arnold Bookbinder, about the unsafe building that Home Depot is so-called remodeling.
And the blogger who asks why you use name calling needs to understand who you are - obviously one of the most vicious and uninformed idiots God ever put on a blogspot.
Whoa, Mayor Sam just got bitch slapped!
Virgils is several miles from the Home Depot in Glendale!
Bitch slapping would entail some honest detaling of the facts not some emotional rant.
The contractors that are afraid of Home Depot need to do the same thing the hardware stores must do - innovate and offer good service at a fair price. Beat Home Depot at their own game. It can be done - if you are willing to work smart.
Thanks for the economics lesson on competition, though as an MBA student I don't need one. That lesson aside there are two main issues to the no home depot fight. One is that Home Depot is trying to circumvent all the rules and laws that were put in place by purposely gaming the bureaucracy of the building department. Secondly we are talking about the last large lot of that kind in this town. We are geographically isolated and already have limited choices to some degree, and what goes into that lot will determine the availability of goods and services, as well as the focus of the town for decades to come.
To extend my first point, like any corporation who must look to please their stockholders they need any edge they can get, and that edge is the ear of the politician who is in the position to get "variances" to long standing rules which never are changed for the regular joe business or jane citizen. If regular jane citizen needs the financial boost from other businesses to fight this monolith, we are not selling out - we are just using whatever resources we have to fight a system which is seemingly becoming rigged against us.
To extend my second point, please note that research shows that while KMart did go bankrupt, this particular store was a money maker. KMart did not have a choice to give up this store - Home Depot had bought the right to chose which properties they wanted for their own. Just as Kmart changed the make up of the whole town when it came 30+ years ago, for better and for worse, so would such a new business like Home Depot change the town in significant ways. The majority opinion in this case is that it would not change this town for the better, and that the laws in place should back us up. Apparently the paper these rules were written on is as thin as rice paper, because a dollar bill to city officials can seemingly cut through it as though it was a knife. That same knife will be the weapon that ultimately will change our town for the worse.
You seem to love calling us names, here is one for you. Idiot! Once again you've shown us what an idiot you are. Have you ever seen some of the work that HD's contractors do? You have one person that sort of knows what to do, and five undocumented workers that are trying to figure it out. Would you have them put a roof on you're house? There is a reason HD can offer cheaper services, and that is part of it. You can join the ranks of the other totally irresponsible jackasses who think this is a good idea. Have you seen the traffic down here at 8:00 am? The amount of children walking on their way to school? Just like a few other shills of you're stature, you won't understand until some one gets hurt, or worse killed. At that point, will you stand up and raise your hand and still be for this? Idiot!
Mayor Sam blogspot -another place to boycott now, just like the crappy Home Depots. Both filled with name-calling bigots. Both totally lacking in any credibility. Good-bye to both of you by any rational peop;e/
Hey Yorty - YOU are a JACKASS!
Nope, it was definitely a bitch slap.
Dear Mayor Sam, I'm one of those NIMBYS you keep referring to in your lame attempts at writing something intelligent . I can't believe you and your buddies would even bother to insinuate that we the people would or could be "bought and paid for" by Home Depot's competitors. Yet another new low for you in regards to this issue.
Any topic on this blog deteriorates into name calling, slurs, and degradation of the residents that live in Sunland Tujunga. The arrogance of those who do not live in this area that think they know what is best for us is appalling. Let's see how you would like a Home Depot in your neighborhood! Remember this property is adjoined by residences on 3 sides and would be the first Home Depot to be located adjacent to residences rather than in a light industrial or industrial area. Get a clue this is a quality of life issue for us. We didn't sign up to live in a crappy industrial zone. Home Depot doesn't own this land, they are only a lease holder, that doesn't give them the right to destroy a community.
So, Mayor Sam, it is okay for the city to ignore its laws, our Specific Plan in this case, to open a warehouse in a place that is slated for light retail, in the middle of a residential neighborhood, along the only street which runs through town, providing the competition, who incidentally you have trashed for fighting Home Depot, gets busy and finds a way to out-buy and out-stock this mega corporation?
And anyone who disagrees with your factless, worthless dissertations and theories is accused of being a NIMBY who has sold out to the existing competion?
NIMBY means Not In My Back Yard, Sir, and so, yes, we do not want a Mega Corporation who has used their power and influence to avoid the law and to build an unwanted and unsafe warehouse in our backyard where it is not allowed.
I shall reiterate: We do not want a Home Depot in our back yard, and we have that right and we will use it.
What's even worse for you, Mr. Yorty, I, personally, am not only a NIMBY, I am a liberal NIMBY, while you, in my opinion, Sir, are someone who needs to shut this blogspot down or pass it on to someone who's got even the tiniest iota of common sense.
Oh, dear, Mayor, you've been bitch slapped again!
The Mayor's Peg-Boy, Wally Moore, will be here soon to try and rescue His Honorable Idiot!
There will be no third bitch slap. Two was enough.
You'd better get use to me cause I don't go away, you may not remember me mayor Sam but I am the individual that posted on one of your past blog's about N2HD {http://mayorsam.blogspot.com/2007/01/anti-home-depot-rally-fails-to-catch.html} You seem lost on this issue M.S. for 1 Home Depot is far from a "Private Business" IT IS A CORPORATION, with shareholders and a board of directors, there is no so called "Dictator" who runs the show, think of it as a form of democracy with "shared powers" the CEO does not always have the final word on issues and is not the "Big Guy" This is to prevent the CEO from driving the business into the ground and power is in this manner divided between the Board and Shareholders in most cases, there are many shareholders and many people on the board, and you call this private?
The Home Depot is an American retailer of home improvement and construction products. Headquartered in Vinings just outside Atlanta, Georgia, it is the largest retailer of home improvement products in the world, providing a wide range of goods and services for both professionals and do-it-yourself consumers. The Home Depot employs more than 355,000 people and operates 2,114 big-box format stores across the United States (including the 50 U.S. states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the United States Virgin Islands), Canada (ten provinces), Mexico and China.
The Home Depot is the second largest retailer in the United States, behind Wal-Mart, and third largest retailer in the world, behind Wal-Mart and French-based company Carrefour.
Current members of the board of directors of Home Depot are: Greg Brenneman, Richard H. Brown, John Clendenin, Claudio González, Milledge Hart, Bonnie Hill, Laban Jackson, Lawrence R. Johnston, Ken Langone, and Tom Ridge.
Gee that is a pretty good sized list is it not? Now I am not saying that Home Depot's CEO does not have a lot of power but he is not the only individual running the show.
Here's some more useful information,
The Home Depot was founded in 1978 in Atlanta, Georgia by Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank after the two got fired from their positions at Handy Dan. The company grew rapidly, with sales topping $1 billion annually by 1986. In 1997, Home Depot expanded to Chile and Argentina with unexpected success during these countries' economic booms. But due to labor union influences in countries historically moved by economic socialism (unlike the highly capitalism-oriented economy in Mexico), Home Depot wanted to pull out and avoid conflict of interests with their governments. The nine stores it opened in there were sold in October 2001 and no longer carry the "Home Depot" name. Home Depot remains economically active in South America, but increasingly focuses on its' twelve new stores in China opened in 2006 with better results and success in a communist, but free-enterprise motivated country. In 2000, after the retirement of Marcus and Blank, Robert Nardelli was appointed chairman, president, and CEO. Nardelli was replaced in January 2007 by Frank Blake.
Nardelli is a fine example of a "crappy" CEO. He used his power and influence in this company to drive stocks to some of the lowest levels in the history of the company, and according to the records the stocks remained low during his entire fiasco with Home Depot, he had stockholders at his throat constantly and at times the situation escalated so much that he refused to even show up for his own meetings with the shareholders themselves, which eventually ended with his "Termination" and yes I don't care what anyone claims Mr. Nardelli WAS FIRED, or for a better word pushed out.
Now back to the subject at hand, I believe that I have already proved that Home Depot is far from a private company, and I would love to see you prove otherwise.
Furthermore you claim that Mayor Villaraigosa and Yourself are not "paid off" then I think you my friend are a lier. You claim to not have been "paid off" but how do we even know if that is the truth? You seem to refuse to think that Mayor Villaraigosa would not accept a hefty payoff to keep his mouth shut about Home Depot's crap, and you seem to be the same, you are defending a company that has a long history of controversial decisions and thieves. You are defending a company that will do anything to expand and grow to make more $$$MONEY$$$, and Money is the sole source of corruption and chaos in the world of business. Everyone wants it everyone needs it, everyone wants more of it. Home Depot would love more of it and I'm sure yourself and Mr. Villaraigosa would too. Now I am no hypocrite, I as well need and indeed love money, we all do, and I am in no way accusing you of doing such things, but money talks and when you defend such a shady corporation such as this it really does not make you look good to anyone but those who are on your side, and it as well tells us something, he is fighting for what he thinks is right, a money grubbing, corrupt, corporation, that is just here to "make another buck". I am supporting a community, that is defending itself from becoming what many cities around the world have become, run by corporations and industrial sink holes.
You have a right to your opinion, even if some Big Orange Guy did whisper some interesting topics ideas into your ear and wave some green gold around, and if that is not true and you are indeed fighting for what you think is right, then God bless my friend. I still am conflicted on if you have any investment in HD or not, and it is a very interesting query, but I do have no doubt that your beloved Mayor Villaraigosa does have an interest in the Orange Cash Cow that is trying to invade Sunland, the more money they make the more money he makes in my opinion, and there is no reason he should just look away and allow Home Depot to lose this battle to citizens. Then again if I am correct the citizens do have a voice on who they want to be there next Mayor, hmmmm that does put him in a tough spot doesn't it, lose Home Depot and with it lots of value to the city of Sunland, or lose hundreds of valued voters who may vote for him when the time comes? He may have already have dug his political grave and soon he will have to lie in it.
As I said earlier Mayor Sam I indeed am not accusing you of any "payoff" but I am saying that you should pick and choose your battles wisely, sometimes the good guys do indeed win and in this case the good guys are the great people of Sunland and the bad guy is Home Depot, and from what I have seen you are defending HD... Why?
finally on a side note:
In my last blog I challenged A Home Depot employee to prove me wrong on the Sunland issue, and I seemed to have never received an answer, as a matter of fact a Home Depot employee to my knowledge didn't even type a word to give me an answer to my challenge, here it is and I quote:
"Each Home Depot employee is told that THEY are the Home Depot, that THEY are the glue that holds that business together, now here is the pressing question, does Home Depot mean that to be true? Do they really consider Home Depot to be all about THEM and THE CUSTOMER? I challenge ANYONE from Home Depot to give me a legit answer to that question, do you feel that YOU are the Home Depot that YOU keep the corporate gears turning? I will be very impressed if anyone who knows what they are talking about will give me a valid, reasonable answer, and not another run-around classic Home Depot run around bull crap story that I have been hearing for years and years and years. I challenge you HOME DEPOT prove me wrong, give me an answer for the world to see please post your blog here on Mayor Sam and tell me your answer! Anyone else who would like to weigh in please do, I Am The King Of Controversy and I love A good debate"
So I again open the gates and ask for a comment from HD, not only about this post but from the other one too, follow my link at the top of the page and read the past blog as well, and give me a valid answer to why they think that they are right, why they think that Home Depot is correct and knows that they are undoubtedly right and deserve to open there doors in Sunland or anywhere else for that matter, and I do not need to hear a cock and bull HD brochure,a person, telling there honest, uncensored opinion, not a paid clown here to give me a runaround about quality and good service. I await your answer and pray to God Home Depot or a HD Employee does not chicken out this time, here's your big shot to show the world HD! MAKE IT MEAN SOMETHING...
Virgil's Glendale Hardware is an AMAZING store, they stock loads of specialty, hard to find items. Every employee in the store knows EXACTLY where to find what you are looking for, and will place it in your hand moments after you ask for it. Home Depot on the other hand, intentionally under staffs its stores to save $$$, ignores customers, has bad customer service policies, poorly educated and trained employees, and operates stores that are nearly always labeled a BAD neighbor by the immediate communities they serve. If they open in Sunland-Tujunga, they will eventually be forced to close because we will not tolerate a desperately unneeded store like Home Depot in our small community and POOR PLANNING decisions by the city of Los Angeles.
If you look at this from a pure "invisible hand" (Adam Smith)point of view,MS is correct. As a longtime Sunland Tujunga (ST)resident, other things really need to be considered however. ST is a long land locked valley, with only one real road up through it. It is near impassable during rush hours now. Keep in mind this is not an industrial area, it does not border on an industrial area. The problem of many large trucks trying to access this narrow corridor at rush hour time would be unthinkable. HD has played dirty from the start, they have lost credibility with me.
Bring on the Home Depot! I'm tired of the whining! And I'm willing to stand up and get attacked for my position. I bet there are a ton of us out here that are just fine on Home Depot coming in but would prefer to steer clear of the flying fur and rabid froth, therefore we've patiently hung out thinking the few vested interests will tire of playing war and get on with good honest business! Geez! If businesses are freaking out this much, I have to wonder at their true value. Brisk competition makes the strong ones sharper, thus they stand out and the weak fall away. Have a little faith in yourselves. You CAN compete. So you've had a bit of a captive audience and now that's going to change... well... BUCK UP and GET BUSY doing business not war! War is an annoying waste of time unless someone is actually attacking YOU! Home Depot may SEEM like they are attacking you personally but in reality it's just part of competition in business. Big boys are here... so? and the problem is.....? Oh! You're scared. Ok. Turn your fear into action towards getting more business by being even better than you already are. You can do that! And the end result is a higher quality standard all around and more productivity for all. That's a GOOD thing.
If you spend your time, energy and life trying to stop things instead of rolling forward and just living life it's a total waste! Haven't you noticed that the most successful folks turn things to their advantage instead of wasting effort pushing directly against an opponent. Basic martial arts moves work in business as well! Pull the strike through! Constant forward motion is key, then you can direct and steer from there. This may seem over simplistic and "missing the finer details" but maybe, just MAYBE this whole fight has become weirdly esoteric.
Let's get on with Sunland-Tujunga thriving not deadlocked in a fight! Change is what made this country great and the ability to get clever, innovative and make a prosperous life is what brought our ancestors to California. Bring in the Home Depot! The truly productive and honest businesses will all be just fine!
This whole thing sounds like a tiny minority of annoying people trying to get attention. No one is listening ... get over it, if Home Depot wants to do business in our community, let them come. The way I see it, Verdugo Hills High School students might have a place to work without having to drive or ride a bus 20 miles and make more than minimum wage. At Verdugo we don't hear about any major donations coming from any of these small businesses.
Besides, every time I've spoken to one of you anti home depot people, you always end up coming across as bigots and racists. In the end its not about the community and the small businesses here, but about "Beaners" coming in to our neighborhoods putting our lives in danger. What a great example for your children!
The people on here saying that this is a community who wants to keep out big corporations, i.e. Home Depot is ridiculous. This is the same community who is now rallying to have a ...WALMART (of all things) in the location that Home Depot was supposed to be!! Do they realize how much a WALMART will bring down this community that is already a sore sight to begin with. People in this community go outside the community to spend their money. Why? Because they want quality items! These are people who shop at Sprouts, Wholefoods, Target (a step up from Walmart!!), Trader Joes, etc. We don't need lame excuses, we need to revamp this city so that quality stores would be willing to open up shop in that neighborhood. I drive though that town and it makes me feel like I stepped into a time capsule and ended up in the 70's...and the worst part, it appears in black and white!!
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