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Tuesday, February 26, 2008

Quieting the Nattering Nabobs of Nativism

With apologies to Spiro Agnew and the Buchanan-Safire alliteration army, be sure to check out Dan Walter's provocative column on immigration in today's Sacramento Bee. Below are a few excerpts. Can we, to borrow a phrase from a certain Bravo show, "make it work" without all the "sturm und drang?"

Immigraton Cartoon

Immigrant facts rebut alarmists

To hear some folks describe it – including some folks who have daily access to a radio microphone – California is under attack by crazed, rapacious and thieving hordes that are pouring across the southern border, bent on occupying the state.

These illegal immigrants – or "aliens" or "invaders" in the vernacular of those who complain incessantly about them – are described as consuming vast sums of welfare and health care funds, committing countless crimes, clogging the prisons and in other ways ruining what would otherwise be an idyllic paradise. And during an election year, of course, the anti-immigrant rhetoric escalates to an even higher level.

...

Those who are coming to California illegally are, overwhelmingly, coming to work and better themselves and their families. We should make public policy based on their emerging factual portrait, not the horrible fantasies being peddled by self-serving, self-appointed patriots.

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26 Comments:

Blogger Red Spot in CD 14 said:

Its "ANTI ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT" Edward.

February 26, 2008 11:25 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

While it is true most people/ illegal immigrants come to work that does not change some facts.

25% of jail inmates are illegal aliens; this is a problem Sheriff Baca has complained about for years. The federal government is not paying the cost of this problem, and Los Angeles County and California are having budget problems because of this. The governor is now in Washington asking the federal government for more money for prisons.

LAUSD has some of the worst and most dangerous schools in the country. The very high percentages of illegal aliens in LAUSD schools are in large part cause of the problem.

Gangs in Los Angeles cost us billions of dollars, if we have 25%illegal inmates in jail what percentage of gang criminals are illegal aliens? Is Los Angeles a better city because of its sanctuary city status? Just read about the daily gang homicides in L.A. and most are committed by mexican gang members.

How much money is spent providing free health care to all the poor illegal immigrants and their children?

How many jobs are being taken from legal citizens by the millions of illegal aliens? The illegal aliens are not just doing jobs “Americans won't do”. Illegal aliens are working in construction, chefs, waiters and millions of jobs American would be more than happy to work at.

When Colorado enacted tougher immigration policies there was less unemployment and crime. The legal citizens of Colorado are not complaining about the results of tougher immigration enforcement in their state.

February 26, 2008 11:49 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

If you are not in this country legally you have no rights. Go back where you came from, get in line, apply and wait your turn...the rest of us had to do that...why do you think they are better than the rest of us who came in legally?

February 26, 2008 11:55 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

What's with this idiotic "nativist" label? EVERY country around the world enforces borders and immigration laws. We are the EXCEPTION and it isn't because we are somehow more enlightened.

February 26, 2008 12:15 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Let's read what the GAO (Government Accounting Office) report has to say about these previously deported and detained "hard working" illegal aliens.

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

Results:

The briefing slides in enclosure I address each of our three questions.

In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found
that:

* They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty- eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after
1990.

* They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests.[Footnote 6] Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud--including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice.

* Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states--California, Texas, and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.

February 26, 2008 12:25 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I'd like to know what neighborhood Edward lives in? Let me venture a guess that it isn't AK-47 territory.

It must be nice to preach to us about how wonderful illegal immigration is from your leafy quiet street in the Hills or the Westside.

We have car alarms, police sirens and gun shots. You have only the hum of Pedro mowing your front lawn.

February 26, 2008 12:42 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

After writer Dan Walters lives in the Westlake area of Los Angeles for a couple of years, and his kids walk through the Westlake gang-infested neighborhoods to Belmont High School, then I will listen to what he has to say about the results of illegal immigration.

Anyone can write about War but until you have lived it your opinion is just an uninformed opinion.

For those of us who live in the sanctuary city of Los Angeles and actually drive by the area where a baby is killed by mexican gang members who later fled to Mexico, one reporter's story is not going to make me blind to what I see with my own eyes.

No middle class family will send there kids to LAUSD schools for a reason. I have even met poor illegal immigrants who are surprised by the violence, gangs and drugs in LAUSD schools. Many new immigarnts kids have to join a gang because of fear and intimidation, so more poor kids equal more gang members. We already have enough poverty and poor people in Los Angeles, only an idiot would think bringing more poor is going to help L.A.'s the problem.

February 26, 2008 12:48 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Did anyone hear the report on NPR this morning about the Public Policy Institute of California study on rates of incarceration of US born citizens vs. immigrants?

According to the PPIC, US born citizens are 5 (five) times more likely to be in jail or prison in Califoania than immigrants.

With apologies to Jim Healy, "I don't make 'em up, Pally". Read it for yourselves.

February 26, 2008 1:22 PM  

Blogger Edward Headington said:

There's always been a nativist sentiment in the United States--going back to the Know Nothing movement and before--and it seems to ebb and flow over the years. It was also an alliterative triplet that couldn't be passed up. '-)

I'm from the 818 and wasn't trying to preach or "drop some knowledge" as they say in some parts. Rather I was trying to provoke a conversation on the issue. It's not always an either/or proposition and it's okay to concede that our opponents have valid points at times. As much as I hate to admit it, even Novak, Rove and Dobbs (an unholy trifecta of sorts to some) can be right on occasion.

Btw, if you're not familiar with Dan Walters, he's a must-read columnist and is often linked on Rough and Tumble, Cal News, Flash Report and a few others.

February 26, 2008 1:25 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

The demogogues you speak of are a small minority. Every advaocy group has them. Most Americans just want the borders secured and the immigration laws enforced. (Like every other country)

February 26, 2008 1:37 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

1:22 did NPR distinguish between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants?

OF COURSE NOT!!

February 26, 2008 1:50 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I would like to see the link to the NPR report about California prisoners.

Because every report I see tell us that a full 25% of jail inmates are illegal aliens. Sheriff Baca has complained about paying this cost without federal help for years.

And since when are U.S. citizens supposed to pay for any illegal alien prisoners. Just look at the GAO report which is posted here, and it contradicts the NPR figure someone is throwing around. But really what does the fact that Americans commit crimes at a higher rate have to do with justifying us paying the cost of illegal immigrants in jails?

Let mexico pay the cost of it's criminals not us.

We have immigration laws to decide who we want to give the right to immigrate, we can't just let anybody and everybody sneak across the border.



What does a 30 yr. veteran gang cop (sgt. Valdemar) from LASD say about illegal immigration and crime?

http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/479-480.php

February 26, 2008 1:59 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I couldn't disagree more! In fact it's silly for anyone to glorify the Mexicanization of L.A. We all have eyes, ears, and cerebral matter.

"We clean your toilets" best describes the two warring factions in L.A. The "We" being the Mexicans; and the "Your" being the Gringos.

Assimilation is non-existent! Bi-lingualism is the tower of Babel! And the cultures are as different as night and day.

We have to enforce the existing laws and start deporting until we clear out most of the freeloaders. Yes, we need workers, but they have to get in line on the OTHER side of the border and apply for orderly work visas; no children or families...only 2 year work visas.

We have to deport ALL gangbangers...legal or illegal! They are the scum of the earth.

And those anchor brats...they are the real trouble makers! This law is a scam and should be repealed NOW! Just think, if anchor babies were illegal..we wouldn't have Villar robbing and pillaging the city! And Nunez, Cedillo, Bustamante, etc.

Sure, let them come to work...but ONLY after WE send for them!

L.A. is now a third world cesspool, but the rest of the country still has a ghost of a chance!

February 26, 2008 2:04 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

I find many reports and studies which tell us illegal aliens are costing us billions of dollars in California alone.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1296426/posts

Illegal aliens cost California billions
The Washington Times | 12/7/2004 | Jerry Seper

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California - which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide - $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.

A key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said the state's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body.

The report also said the incarceration of convicted illegal aliens in state prisons and jails and uncompensated medical outlays for health care provided to illegal aliens each amounted to about $1.4 billion annually. The incarceration costs did not include judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes committed by illegal aliens that led to their incarceration.

February 26, 2008 2:20 PM  

Blogger Edward Headington said:

One of the shows I like to watch is Gangland on The History Channel. Thursday nights at 9 p.m.

It's both fascinating and troubling at the same time. There was a recent one on MS-13 that talked about how the deportation of gang members led to the spread of transnational gangs in Latin America.

If you accept the findings of the program, the havoc they wreak does not stop once they've been deported and in some ways metastizes (and returns).

At the very least, however, the federal government should fully reimburse California and other states for jailing criminal non-citizens. The program is called the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program or SCAAP. Its administered by the U.S. Department of Justice and DHS and provides payments to states and localities that incur correctional officer salary costs.

February 26, 2008 2:47 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

"If you accept the findings of the program, the havoc they wreak does not stop once they've been deported and in some ways metastizes (and returns)."

Which is exactly why we need an Israeli-style border wall.

February 26, 2008 3:07 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Ed,
If you watch Gangland, you should also be familiar with the Mexican Mafia (EME) prison gang. The EME has control of 100s of thousands of latino/sureno gang members throughout California who are also spreading all over the country.

The 18th street gang is larger than MS-13 and has a large percentage of illegal alien membership here in Los Angeles and S. Calif. The 18th St gang is also a trans-national gang and enemies to MS-13, and the 18th gang was started by mostly illegal mexican immigrants years ago.

And all these latino gang members easily travel in and out of our porous borders. Just one reason why we need tighter border controls and a repeal to SP-40, to allow police to easily arrest the very large illegal alien gang population.

February 26, 2008 3:17 PM  

Blogger don quixote said:

Good post Edward, these nattering nabobs of nativism have always been around in the US and their screeching anti immigrant rhetoric does as you say ebb and flow with immigration patterns.

Yes we have a border problem, and yes we should secure our borders more thoroughly but, only an insane person or a Dr. Mengele would suggest that at this late date we in the USA should round up and ship back 12 to 20 million people who may or may not be in this country without documentation.
Not to mention their offspring and legal significant others.

But to hear these nutcases yell about "anchor babies" and who use blanket statements about welfare and crime and oh my god! The fictitious vanishing English language!, is to realize that we in the USA still have people who function on hate and a vitriolic agenda that only mirrors there own low self esteem and fear.

These millions of immigrants who have carried much of the economy on there shoulders these past 40 years didn't just magically appear here, they were manipulated by an economy in Mexico and Central America that failed it's people, and used and abused in many cases by the powers that be here in the USA that has a hunger for cheap,fearful yet productive labor, and the citizenry of the USA be damned.
We will never get a handle on the immigration problem unless we deal with it in a humanistic and rational manner.

Like it or not we exist in a world of international economy and movement and all the hysterics and gnashing of teeth by the no nothing nativists amounts to nothing but hate and waste of energy.

February 26, 2008 6:15 PM  

Blogger Mayor Sam said:

Oh shit, the liberals have taken over Mayor Sam! My word they might revoke our Bear Flag League membership! :)

Good article Edward though I don't agree with you entirely. The rhetoric of talk show hosts aside, there is a concern about illegal immigration from an infrastructure, services and just plain fairness issue to those who came here legally.

We're not going to deport those already here and many of them are good people. They're no more criminal by percentage than those who are born here. However we do need to toughen up at the border, enforce existing sanctions and make it clear that its important for all immigrants to assimilate into our mass culture (which doesn't mean they have to lose theirs like my grandpa did) so that they can operate beyond just cleaning toilets as our mayor would have them do.

February 26, 2008 7:10 PM  

Blogger Edward Headington said:

Hehe ... maybe now your blog is "fair and balanced" Mayor Sam. '-)

On a more serious note, it was meant to be a conversation starter. As you know, Walters calls it as he sees it, has been around a long time and doesn't suffer fools/stats/studies easily. Most reasonable people recognize that we are both a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. The two can seemingly be at odds with each other but hopefully our elected leadership and opinion leaders find that creative nexus.

Thanks for the postings, anons et al. To use the parlance of the times, we'll stay fired up and ready to go on this issue.

February 26, 2008 7:39 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Don Quixote,
Aren't these your words from InTheHatBlog, you sound like one of those old cholo racist, who call blacks "mayates". It's hypocritiacl for you to be talking about hate, don't you think?

In The Hat Blog


"Probably the reason why nobody contests it is that it is a typical example of Mayate loudtalking and whistling in the dark. It's obviously a quote from one of those Chanates (ok you don't like Mayate!)who are legends in their own minds.
Anybody who has done any time or grew up around these guys would recognize this guys rap as typical juiri juiri juiri!
He doesn't make one single valid point or propose any verifiable or established fact in his soliloquy.
It's all hyperbole."

February 26, 2008 9:24 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

Yes we have a border problem, and yes we should secure our borders more thoroughly but, only an insane person or a Dr. Mengele would suggest that at this late date we in the USA should round up and ship back 12 to 20 million people who may or may not be in this country without documentation.

**************************

(No documenation = illegal)

We don't need to ship people back, if we enforce immigration laws and start a few thousand deporations, millions will leave on their own.

In cities where immigration laws are enforced the illegal aliens leave on their own. If we penalize employers for hiring illegal aliens and jobs become scarce for illegal aliens they will simply leave. Most of the illegal aliens in Los Angeles know not to visit Costa Mesa, Ca. which does not have a SP-40 like L.A.

Many illegal immigrants went to New Orleans when they heard they could find jobs in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Illegal aliens follow the jobs and will leave when NO jobs are readily available.

After a work-place raid of a California factory, the news of the INS raid was carried nationally on the spanish language stations Telemundo and Univision. The INS/ICE just needs to conduct these raids on a regular basis to show the U.S. is not going to ignore the problem anymore.

Most mexican illegal immigrants heard about Mexican Elvira Arellano and her attempt to avoid deportation by hiding in a church in Los Angeles after leaving Chicago. These stories make Inter-National news on the spanish networks.

February 27, 2008 12:16 AM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

This is what L.A. County should be doing, make that every County.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-riversidegang27feb27,1,2948219.story

Deportees who return tageted


The Riverside County district attorney and Sheriff's Department will join forces with the U.S. attorney's office to crack down on convicted gang members who return to the country after being deported, authorities announced Tuesday.

Until now, county officials had to wait until a deportee who had returned committed a crime that fell under county jurisdiction to prosecute him.

As part of the agreement, a Riverside County deputy district attorney will be appointed special assistant U.S. attorney, which will allow the attorney to exercise federal immigration authority.

Dist. Atty. Rod Pacheco said a crackdown on the returnees would help the county prevent many gang-related crimes from occurring.

February 27, 2008 7:44 AM  

Blogger Rita Of Sunland/Wally Wharton said:

Obviously the pro-illegal types on this blog are just plain BORED SILLY with the actual sad facts and numbers re: the Tijuana Trojan horse-style offense. So I'll "go personal: While trying on a pair of shoes at the Goodwill, this dumb you-know-what snatched the shoes I rode in on and wouldn't give 'em back. "Hey- those'r mine! MINE!" At first she pretended the ole' "No Inglaisa" routine. "Gimme my shoes-- COMPREN-DAY?" For a few tense moments she just glared at me, then finally tossed 'em back my way muttering: "I don'like so mach inywayss..." Then these two ferel anchor babies kept running up and down the aisles, throwing the kiddie merchandise around and screaming until store patrons winced and plugged their ears. Inevitably the bratty little nina ran smack-dab into my shopping cart. The unruly nino(a little brown vampire w/low forehead widow's peak and huge crooked incisors jutting out on either side of his mouth) kept tossing a beach ball until I caught it mid-air and put it in my basket."Geeve eet to me!" demanded the future gangbanger. "Why should I? It's not your ball. This ball belongs to the store. You didn't buy it. Besides, you two don't know how to behave. You're running around here like wild Indians and disturbing the shoppers. Guess your mom is too busy shoplifting to keep you in line." The girl started to cry. Suddenly I smelled the unmistakeable aroma of a maxed-out tax-payer-funded Pamper. The other kid kept yelling: "Geeve eet back! Geeve eet back!" I moved on, eventually dumping the damn ball in the electronics section out of reach. While checking out I caught a glimpse of the kids' mom trying to squeeze into jeans 5 sizes too small for her caboose. A cluster of learing male day laborers gawked brazenly and made disgusting mouth noises. Hopeless, the whole goddam situation. And this is the kind of low-life behavior the people of L.A. are forced to grapple with everyday. Can you blame us for being sick and tired of it?

February 27, 2008 2:01 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said:

There's an old white lady three doors down from me who feeds maybe 50 cats. She's got cat food on the front porch rotting in dishes. The cats roam the neighborhood and cry at night and you can smell the stench when you pass her house. She's got tons of newspapers in the backyard by the garage and old furniture stacked everyplace. The house is a dump, the paint is peeling, and the old white lady smells like cat pee pee. When we tell her she has to clean up she curses at us. Can you blame us for being sick and tired of it?

February 27, 2008 9:27 PM  

Blogger Rita Of Sunland/Wally Wharton said:

Hola Anony"mecha"-- show me one out-of-control gabacho Cat Lady and I'll show you MILLIONS of out-of-control criminal illegal aliens, as well as MILLIONS of "hard-working" diaper dumpers. Your Cat Lady only infringes upon those in her immediate sphere. And yeah, it must be a real drag, as well as an assault on the senses. However, you can bet she isn't listed on the city's list of the 10 most wanted gangbangers, she obviously can't breed like a ca-I mean- like a RABBIT, she doesn't hassle you outside the 7/11, she CAN speak English, she doesn't replace her muffler and rev the engine in the middle of the street at 2:AM, she doesn't stage militant "We Clean Your Toilet" "Si se Pwa-day" May-Day rallies, she doesn't do drive-by shootings, she probably has never killed a cop, AND SHE DOES NOT COST CALIFORNIA BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ANNUALLY. (yawn) My work is done here. I rest my case.

February 28, 2008 4:50 PM  

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