When is a scoop a scoop?
An interesting little back and forth on the question of who scooped whom in recent stories about the Times dual Hertzberg-Villariagosa endorsement and the internal Villaraigosa poll showing the Mayor in third place behind himself and Bob Hertzberg.The Sister City was the first of the major political blogs in town to post an article about the impending Times bombshell early Saturday afternoon. As well, Chief Parker posted an edited transcript of the actual editorial and later one of our readers posted the entire text in a comment. Within a few hours, both LA Observed and LA Voice posted the story and promised the text or a link to it later on.
In a second story, we reference the Chief's story as well as the same LA Voice story that detailed the Villaraigosa poll with the damaging results for Hahn. We linked to and credited LA Voice for the news.
As we are prone to doing, we tooted our own horn (if you don't who will?) about our scoop on the Hertzberg-Villaraigosa LA Times dual-endorsement. It wasn't long afterward that Mack Reed of LA Voice posted to our article that we shouldn't have really claimed a scoop because a reader of LA Voice going by the name of "Times Mole" had posted the following Thursday night (Reed also reiterated this in a subsequent article about the endorsement here):
The Los Angeles Times will endorse two candidates again. I know this for sure. But I don't know which ones yet, though I predict it will be Hertzberg and Villaraigosa. Is this the deathknell for the mayor?
So we'll give the point to LA Voice on this one, even though it was an actual staff posted article. However, one of our readers makes an interesting point. The story about the Villaraigosa poll - which we credited to LA Voice - first showed up in a reader post on the Sister City Friday morning.
Don't worry, MEAT or some other flack-let will resurface when there are more bogus polls to pitch. Word is they have their own internal (yeah, right) polls now showing ADV at 27-28, Hertzberg at 22-23, and Hahn at 21.
So maybe the point on that one goes to the Sister City. But honestly, who cares? Yes we will promote our blog with the fun and bravada associated with our late, former Mayor and once in a while we'll probably piss someone off. That goes with the territory when you're an alternative to the alternatives. The truth is the blogs are out there and all of them are doing their level best to keep both the traditional press, comment media and the politicians honest. If we have some redundancy, shared credit, stolen credit and some genuine scoops, its all part of the game.
Blog away dum dums!
Posted by Mayor Sam @ 2/20/2005 12:28:00 PM
44 Comments:
MAYOR SAM FROM CHICKNBALL
BOY FRONM TROY SAYS YOU BLOW HIM I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE GAY I TOLD YOU HE IS A PEDAFILEE WHY YOU DON'T TAKE OFF HIS LINK IF YOU ARE CONSERVATIVE???? I HAVE DECIDE TO VOTE FOR VILAROGASA
Here's a scoop, the LA Times has never endorsed Hahn in his entire career, yet he has never lost a city wide election.
No parallelism there. The L.A. Times is definitely out of sync with the city, but its history of not endorsing Hahn doesn't mean he will win this time, against these odds.
The Times' arrogant pride would not allow them to endorse Hertzberg outright, even though the text as much as said they were -- because the Daily News did that, earlier. They will not be seen as "following" the little paper, under any circumstances. This way, they also have at least one horse in the final race - possibly two.
Hey I hear that Hertzberg's Eastside opening was a flop. I guess AV has nothing to be worried about on the East side.
I heard he had every leader of a 14th district neighborhood council, except Arroyo Seco, at the event. And most are endorsing him. That is a huge blow to Antonio.
Wow! Have any NC leaders in the Valley endorsed ADV? Yea - right!
Hey Antonio - that really sucks that the people in your own district don't even like you.
Maybe you could get Goofball Hal Netkin to switch from Walter Moore if you let him make you a Matricula and you renounce Mecha. They already renounced you, so why not???
Pinche puto Antonio. Un qué pequeño clown triste usted es Antonio. Usted debe ir quizá a casa y gritar a su madre. ¿Cómo usted se siente ahora que usted sabe que usted no va a ganar la elección?
Antonio está ganando una elección. Él es muy lejano a continuación en el plomo como el miembro más mudo del Consejo de Ciudad.
These listserv's are very powerful. Attention Deficit Villaraigosa's own moronic field staffers find out what's happening in their own districts with info sent on the e-mail groups. I heard the Hertzberg Eastside opening was a success. I would love to see a Hahn-Huggy Bear run-off
The fact that Huggy is even in the eastside shows Antonio's vulnerability. I heard he was wigging out that he was even going to the eastside. Go get 'em Huggy, Antonio is on the blink.
The fact that Huggy is even in the eastside shows Antonio's vulnerability. I heard he was wigging out that he was even going to the eastside. Go get 'em Huggy, Antonio is on the blink.
Talk about a flop, I heard the days of service in Boyle Heights has 300 people. This is good in the rain but they were mostly YO people who were forced to go there by Robert Sainz (CDD) and Aztec Fire Crew people who do not want to piss off AV. So in the end I heard there were only 20 community members present who were not forced to go.
That Jose has some mouth...for you non-spanish speaking folks it comes out to some dirty language.
The Times endorsement means nothing. Their coverage of the mayoral election is lackluster. The same goes for the Daily News, which thankfully has not covered another boring debate in some time.
How many times can you write about a debate where there is nothing new? It will come down to the commercials, mail and outreach by these campaigns...not by these left- and right-leaning papers with amateur journalists.
FYI - I thought i heard/read somewhere that Mayor Hahn was going to visit the Valley? I believe he is addressing the United Chambers of Commerce tomorrow, President's Day. I could be wrong, but that's what i thought i saw somewhere. I have no idea what he is trying to pitch but good luck to him. He'll need it.
If you have any question about how little and poorly Antonio's campaign uses alternate media like this, compare and contrast the traffic on his own campaign blog (only 3 comments on the L.A. Times split- endorsement, for example, versus the 100+ here and dozens on other blogs). One of those was expressing how they would much rather face Hahn in the runoff. Hertzberg's people are somewhat more savvy on this front, although their blog isn't much more active - and is still Valley-centric. (BH gets nearly as much abuse there as on Mayor Sam's - but at least they're not censoring the way AV's blog does).
Yep, strong showing by Hertzy yesterday in Eagle Rock. Huge gathering of 25 people. I'm underwhelmed. He also announced the support of Manny Hernandez and Richard Acosta...lets see, one neighbhorhood council prez who resigned his job and his council doesn't want him back and another neighborhood council prez who's facing a recall because his neighborhood council cant stand him. Powerful statement Hertzy!
That is five more community members than Antonio had at his clean-up who were not forced to go. You Hertzberg Haters (Antonio staff and campaign hacks) are all the same. Always trying to tear down something because it is a threat to you. Is it true that AV is going crazy that Hertzberg is in East LA?
Jose,
I take it we can safely assume that the anti-Antonio crowd shares your vehement hatred for gays. Just because it's in Spanish doesn't mean we don't understand.
Is it true, Hertzberg has more support on the eastside from Neighborhood Councils than Antonio?
Watch what you say? Watch what YOU say! If you are anti-Villaraigosa you must be anti-Gay. What nonsense! It's because of people like you political discourse is dragged into the gutter. And the same to Jose!
Watch what you say? Watch what YOU say! If you are anti-Villaraigosa you must be anti-Gay. What nonsense! It's because of people like you political discourse is dragged into the gutter. And the same to Jose!
Here is a scoop:
Antonio's staff actually returned my call today!
I guess things are changing in CD14.
Anonymous above spouting about the NC presidents in CD14 is badly informed, said this:
"...lets see, one neighbhorhood council prez who resigned his job and his council doesn't want him back and another neighborhood council prez who's facing a recall because his neighborhood council cant stand him."
180 degrees off on both counts. The first was welcomed back by his NC after leaving for a health issue, the second is only facing a "recall" (with less support for it in that community than the AV recall), because he has stood up to the Villaraigosa cadre on that board over several very inappropriate actions they sought to take. The most recent was spending nearly $1,500 of their $50,000 in annual NC funds intended for community improvement to pay for fancy treats to feed visiting City Council members during an off-site CC meeting there. I can provide documentation for that to an impartial 3rd party. If trying to stop rabid partisans from wasting NC money in a poor community to impress their hero AV is worthy of recall, then lets elect more leaders this "worthy!"
By the way, those NC presidents run 2 large councils that represent nearly half of CD14's population.
lil boy from south la says...
Bob Hertzberg is the ultimate flip-flopper, which means quite frankly you can't trust Bob Hertzberg.
1. Bob's poor father couldn't trust him, first he is the loyal son helping out old daddy, then he flips and sues him. Bob's own dad can't trust him.
2. First Bob gives his children the best options a parent can give, then he flips on them when he decides its more convenient to run for Mayor. Bob's own kids can't trust him.
3. Bob's 2nd wife, first he says he will love and be faithful to her forever, then he flips and dates Cynthia Telles for close to 2 years, Cynthia tells bob to divorce her and he flips and does as Cynthia says. Bob's own wife can't trust him.
4. LAUSD break-up -- As an assemblyman FREE (Finally restoring Excellence in Education) though they had an advocate in Bob Hertzberg(ask paula boland), sadly no. Bob then decideds to run for mayor and flips on his position for students in LA. Teachers and students can't trust Bob to be there for them when they need him.
4. Sunshine Cyn --- As speaker Bob accepts thousands from BFI and even lets them sponser his big Valley Speaker coming out party -- supports keeping Sunshine alive, decides to run for Mayor and flips his position on Sunshine. Granada Hills can't trust bob hertzberg for mayor.
5. Valley Secession -- First through the relationship with Richard Katz, mr hertzberg is open to the idea of secession and changing the rules, then he flips on them to oppose it, he then flips on the city of LA to put out the boroughs plan. Unite LA or Valley Vote couldn't trust Bob Hertzberg.
6. Vignali -- Accepts all the contributions he can from Horatio and then makes sure other legislators meet and greet the guy. Promises resolution on the pardon, can't broker the deal. Drug kingpins can't trust Bob Hertzberg.
lil boy from south la says...more to come next week. I'll be honest the more traction lil bobby gets, the more truth i will expose. til next monday!
FROM MEAT:
All i want to know is when was Nick going to pay the La Colective kids?
I do recall them making a flier blaming Nick Pacheco for their debt. In fact there was a 4 year old outside of Nick's campaign office with a sign that read "please pay my daddy". You can create all the fake leaders you want, Pacheco was a failed councilman, failed candidate for DA, failure all around. This feable attempt to resurrect his career on this blog, is sad and pitiful. Until Nick pays those LA Colectiva kids, i won't let him get elected to any other office ever.
blog away dum-dums
Who the f... are you MEAT. Some little kid who drives Antonio around and spews out lies on this blog. You are a nobody and you are going to stop Pacheco getting into office again? Go see a therapist you little turd and try to get your facts right. And worry about getting Villaraigosa elected. Because when your boy loses again and is kicked out of CD14, you will be crying like a little baby.
"Fake leaders" -- from a mouth that drools Antonio spin? You delusional, spoon-fed hypocrite. There isn't an emptier suit in L.A. history than ADV. There isn't an elected offical in the state that has piggybacked on other people's ideas more than Tony Villar. There isn't a pol in the country more out of touch with the needs of his consituents than "frequent flier" Villaraigosa. He knows more about the "little people" in D.C. than his CD.
The "hands on leadership" tag line on his ads is funnier than all the sitcoms in prime time. That one line will lose him the vote of any activist in the district that was sitting on the fence. If he's campaigning as "hands-on" then they KNOW everything else is a lie. Because no one is LESS hands-on than ADV.
FROM MEAT:
Did i upset someone? Does someone need a nap? Who here on this blog thinks the above posters need a nap? I was so amazed by your comments with all the Facts and Figures it was amazing. I mean i post that he needs to pay those La Colectiva kids, cause they were planning on using that money to pay for books for college and the such, do the above posters even refute it, no. They just spew their anger for the entire world to see, i suppose if you are unemployed like the above posters one can suspect they are always angry.
Again i am not on Antonio's payroll, so driving him isn't something i'd do. That said, i think the above posters should identify which activists are on the fence - name them. Ahh yes they don't exist, just like this recall doesn't exist, just like the same 4 people pretending to be more don't exist. I just hope you guys have someone near you when you are watching Antonio give his victory speech, can't have you having a heartache on us now. Someone on this blog might blame the death on Antonio, and we can't have that can we.
blog away lil dum-dums
ADV wouldn't know where to attend his CD14 NC's meeting if he had a map. I agree that the Eastside NC's have some very strong leaders who know how to organize and get things done on their own. More residents are turning to NC's then their own CD14 council office for per lack of respect, efficiency and not knowing how to work with community. Mind you the idiot Antonio is on the Education and Neigbhorhood Committee. I know of one Eastside NC that ADV hasn't even been to in over a year and half.
Interesting you would use the term "conductor" MEAT, but maybe you better lose the train analogies. You and Tony's handlers must be feeling real bad about something missed in the past? You know, the conductor isn't the one that drives the train - that's the engineer. The conductor collects the money and the tickets to pay for the ride. You know, like the $20 million ADV's transportation committee left on the table. Someone's feeling guilty about that, no doubt.
I'm pretty good with numbers, but I can't keep up with this MEAT math.
"...the same 4 people pretending to be more don't exist."
Okay, now it's only 4, which one of the 5 sleazy bar owners died or called in sick? Now it's down to four, and those four "don't exist." These ghost posters are sure giving the one real, concrete MEAT a run for his money, though. He's having to invent even more convoluted figures to back up past lies, insult duly elected NC leaders (just because they know ADV better and back someone else... what a crime!), and dig up "crimes" past councilmembers supposedly did, all in order to change the subject about his boy's bad performance in office. Show the 81 percent approval "facts", show the faked KABC-TV approval poll "facts", show the "internal" tracking "facts" that no one wants to own up to now, but that they leaked just in time to try and distract from the lackluster Times endorsement. MEAT, you of all people can't throw out numbers here -- you lost all credibility on anything related to digits and decimals ages ago. Johnny can't read in L.A. - but MEAT can't count.
Meat really should stick to what he can do -- bashing Hahn. With backfiring support like his, AV doesn't need anymore enemies. Meat is a one-man AV suicide squad.
We hear the real AV poll that MEAT will not show you has Hertzie at 29, AV at 24 and JH at 22. Also strong support in CD14 in Hertzie, coming in 2nd with Hahn and Parks tied for #3. This is why you see that the ADV folks are now posting about Huggy.
Huggy I hope you are up for this.
"MEAT should really stick to what he can do" Can you tell me what that is? Well, he can lie, I suppose. I give you that one. What else? Oh, he can repeat what the Villaraigosa camp tells him to say. Oh, yes. I give you that, too. But what else? Nothing? So, we have established that MEAT can lie (but not convincingly) and he can repeat what he's told to say by the "grown ups" on Antonio's campaign. With those qualifications I bet MEAT has a good chance of getting a job with Antonio2006.
Pacheco followed Garcetti's leadership academy. For what it is worth. I was a graduate of Garcetti's academy. And my cousin worked for Nick.
Meat is a puto wanabe will never be hired by that puppet clown Antonia but they will keep leading him on for free stuff. This is how Antonia likes to date his women poor sad clown.
Meat lied to us every day on here and continues to lie for his boyfriend Antonia.
Meat never told us who he was even though the puto said he would. He is nobody, nobody, just a maricon with a computer. Same as Harriman.
Vote Alarcon!
The LA Times is cherry picking the truth to support it's weak Hertzberg "sort-of" endorsement. On Feb. 20, 2005 a Times article criticized Hahn (again) for not taking on the incredibly demanding, time--intense chairmanship of the MTA. It was a wise decision and the same one that Riordan made, albeit, Riordan gave up his turn as chair for TWO YEARS, Hahn for only one. Riordan gave his seat to Richard Alatorre who was later indicted on corruption charges involving his term. Hahn passed his turn to veteran Valley Councilman Hal Bernson who knew transportation being chair of the Transporation Committee, the Metrolink Board, President of SCAG and was well respected by the other members of the MTA Board, a key to getting any done. It was a particularly wise move in light of the fact that in addition to secession, "911" commanded a great deal of Hahns attention that year. How convenient that the LA Times neglects to mention that tidbit.
Lastly, the LA Times is the biggest flip flopper of all--a few short years ago it blasted a 2001 City Council candidate for supporting a separate school district in the San Fernando Valley. Their comments were vitriolic at best--so what changed? Nothing, it's far less of an issue today in the Valley than it was four years ago. The difference is they have no longer have any shame and just make it up as they go along to fit their candidate de jour and their own agenda.
MEAT,
You should go back to the Valley and support Valley Succession (Valley Vote) because you are out of touch with my Council District. I do not know who the NC's are going to support but I do know they are very upset with my Councilman Antonio Villaraigosa and he has alot of opposition to him running for Mayor. Hahn and Hertzberg do have alot of support in CD14 NC's including Downtown LA NC. I think Antonio forgets this is in his district too.
"Pacheco followed Garcetti's leadership academy. For what it is worth. I was a graduate of Garcetti's academy. And my cousin worked for Nick."
Since neither on is running for mayor, then I guess it's worth nothing. First, second, who cares... Villaraigosa is LAST in empowering people in his own district. Dead last behind "indict me again, I love it", multiple-recall target Art Snyder.
You girls really shouldn't bash meat so much. I find his arguments very convincing and he is an excellent debater. Because of his points up above I have decided NOT to vote for Villaraigosa OR Pacheco for mayor this year. ABV and ABP. I didn't even know Nick was running, but I'm sold.
Let's see who else is on the ballot.
I don't believe Meat works for Villaraigosa. He has way to much anti-Hahn venom for even an AV staffer. I think Hahn or one of his underlings must have canned Meat from some cushy, useless city job in the past four years. He's taking the Hahn candidacy way too personal for any other explanation.
"We hear the real AV poll that MEAT will not show you has Hertzie at 29, AV at 24 and JH at 22."
That maks a lot of sense "guy who hears" -- you KNOW if AV was on top in any kind of sampling the news would be screaming out of every campaign office. AVs track record in the last mayoral campaign shows he does not pick up most of the undecideds, plus more of the support from also-rans goes elsewhere. With his team wounding Hahn so badly with constant rumors of "high level indictments" the undecideds will be looking hard to get away from both parts of the two-man runoff combo that made the 2001 race such a waste of energy last time around.
Blogger said: "Pacheco followed Garcetti's leadership academy."
You're thinking of something else, Garcetti hadn't even been elected to City Council when this stuff (NLI) started. He's only just finishing up his first term.
MEAT should check his facts before libeling Pacheco. According to the following LA Times article Pacheco never owed any La Colectiva employees any money.
La Colectiva was a for profit campaign organizing company that worked for Alvin Parra in 1995 and Pacheco in 1999.
It's owner Martin GutieRuiz took full responsibility for owing those students their money.
Here is the article:
Eastside Operation Leaves Youths at Loss; Probe: D.A. investigating La Colectiva's use of state funds, while its former workers seek back pay.;
MATEA GOLD, TINA DAUNT. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Oct 10, 2001. pg. B.1
Only Villaraigosa supporters perpetuate the lie and myth that Pacheco owed these workers money.
MEAT must be on Villaraigosa's payroll to say something so ignorant. I'm sure after he reads the article he won't be repeating such a stupid thing, unless of course he's getting paid to do so by Villaraigosa
You guys MEAT, FEO, doesn't have anything to bitch and moan about but things that happened years ago just like his boss Attention Deficit Villaraigosa record of 4 years ago when he was assemblyman and has to put on his commercials now. WHo the hell cares what he did that long ago? He's done nothing for the past 2 years as councilman and now evern CM members are blasting his loser butt. Meat you're not answering about Antonio, FEO taking money from NC's that is documented. Why would he do that if he was sitting on thousands?
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