Home Depot Is Next
Pretty soon, 7-11 won't be able to open a store in Los Angeles.Now that Wal-Mart has become completely politically incorrect, activists in Los Angeles have set their sights on Home Depot. Despite the fact that both these chains provide significant numbers of jobs, provide quality products at low prices and are significant parts of the American economy.
The Sunland-Tujunga community, managed to play the city government game, and have basically made it impossible for the Atlanta based retailer to locate in their area. Their sights are now set on blocking Home Depots in Glassell Park, Huntington Beach and Atwater Village.
In related news, though LA City officials encourage the hiring of illegal alien day laborers at Home Depots, Orange County is doing the right thing.
Posted by Mayor Sam @ 2/27/2006 12:10:00 AM
50 Comments:
I'm sure the Mayor will be getting a call from Fernando Guerra, one of the many paid shrills for Home Depot. Yes, the same Fernado Guerra whom the LA Times reported on a few months ago.
What's wrong with Home Depot? We need them.
These anglo people don't want the peons to beg for jobs outside the stores. Do you remember the so called progressives? Rich liberal left who pretend to like the poor. Instead use the poor for political benefit and in reality are racist, hate Latinos. These anglos in the picture with the Mayor are racist and don't want latinos in their neighborhood corners. Wake Up!! The liberal rich left is evicting the Los Angeles poor and buying up property to make it caucasian. You know I am right.
This is not a "race" issue. This is about a substantial piece of property in the Sunland community which formerly housed a general merchandise business. There is no buffer between this property and residential, plus it is high traffic area for local primary and middle schools. Home Depot is a home improvement/construction business. The community wants a place in the neighborhood where we can get socks, underwear, curtain rods, and an occasional small appliance -- like we had before and was most profitable. No Home Depot in Sunland-Tujunga!
If you bought enough socks, towels, condoms, whatever your K-Mart would still be open. Its not the government's role to supply you. If a better use is as a hardware store, that's life.
Interesting... you can't get a legal job inside a Walmart or Home Depot, but you can stand outside and the local gov't will encourage illegals to get work.
We need Home Depot like we need a hole in the Head!
Home Depot would destroy this little community. Go drive thru there and you will see why. Sunland-Tujunga is a foothill town with a single 4 lane road running through it! There is a school less than a block away, and the nearest freeway ramp is over a mile away!
Whoever called the two women in that picture racist anglos owes them an apology. Our KMart WAS profitable and now working poor and people on fixed income have to drive to another city to buy kid's clothes or sheets. The single bus line up here only runs once per hour so those with low incomes are really being hurt worst of all and most of them are Hispanic or Armenian, and many elderly. KMart corp sold the lease to Home Depot during their bankruptcy and it was Home Depot that got to pick which KMarts it was going to take. Home Depot only wants the site in order to keep Lowe's out. They are treating our community as a pawn in a corporate chess game. Our town has no other site for a general merchandise store.
"...Orange County is doing the right thing."
Mayor Sam, you definitely lost my respect with your aforementioned statement.
You think that the OC is doing the right thing by using local police to enforce federal immigration laws?
Of course, the OC police department responds that they're not arresting folks because of immigration status, rather they're enforcing the city code that forbids soliciting work in private business parking lots.
If that was the case, how come I don't see the city of Orange's policde deparment enforcing code 8.06.010, which goes after the proliferation of shopping carts abandoned on public and private property.
How about city code 9.12.020, which reads that it is unlawful for any person knowingly to be present or knowingly to remain at or within any residential structure, building, stand, or place that is used for gambling? There's a hold'em poker tournament at every other house in Orange.
This is another example of immigration being viewed through a racial and ethnic lens. Of course, no one ever mentions the hundreds of thousands of "illegal aliens" that come thru the Canadian border.
John Acosta
Irvine, Calif.
THANKS JOHN ACOSTA. FINALLY, SOMEONE ON THIS BLOG WITH BRAINS AND COMMON SENSE!
No Home Depot In Sunland-Tujunga!
This group fighting Home Depot is made up of many colors, cultures, religious and political persuasions.
They all come together on this issue!
There is no racism here, only concern
for Sunland-Tujungas future!
John Acosta,
I never understood the hang-up with local police enforcing federal immigration laws. Local police officers enforce all kinds of federal laws everyday, indeed they are sworn to do so.
What is it about illegal that supporters of illegal immigration don't get? If you want to come to this country, great - do it legally like everyone else.
The Canadian border? Indeed, round 'em up, but you have to admit their numbers are far fewer. However, enforcement on the Northern border has to be stepped up, we've had some Al-Qaeda folks caught there and I believe in a few different ways, it could be easier for terrorists to sneak in through Canada than Mexico.
Your issue people gambling is a red herring.
3:39 - why do you prefer Lowes over Home Depot?
And if K-Mart was profitable, they would have never left.
KMART had to sell around 25 stores in Cali per bankruptcy court. It had nothing to do with profitability per store. It was court ordered.
Lowes is just less of a zoo.
Actually, in regard to the selling of the K-Mart stores, Kmart was very cash poor and tetering in bankruptcy and Home Depot has more money that it knows what to do with, so Home Depot approached the K-mart Corp, knowing that it could make a killing, and said "We want to buy 24 of your stores. Show them to us and we will pick the ones we want." And unfortunately, they selected the Tujunga store as one of the batch. Tujunga is a geographically small, narrow, hilly community. Foothill Blvd is the main way in and out. There are no more large plots of land available to build something like a variety store, such as K-mart, WalMart, or Target. Also, we have 5 hardware stores withing 3 miles. We have an existing Home Depot in San Fernando 7 miles away, and 9 miles away in Nort Hollywood. Many of us shop at Home Depot. It's not that we don't want them. We have them close enough. We need a local variety store, badly, not a closer Home Depot. We are all tired of having to drive to Pasadena or Burbank to buy underware, a tie, a toaster, or fish food. And by the way, for the people that want to make this look like some sort of race issue, the Sunland-Tujunga area is the most diverse community in Los Angeles with a recorded 63 different races in our area (from the 2000 census). That may be an issue at other stores, not here.
We dont want a home depot because all those damn mexicans stand outside and beg for work, they should all just go back to Mexico and take their 12 kids with them
All the things that are said here is amazing, the fact is this site is about 150 yards from an elementry school and A fast food chain that the middle school kids visit, they walk right past this site. With the heavy traffic and day labors hanging around leaves to many avenues for problems. There is not enough needs in sunland for a Home Depot. There is only one blvd. that will give access to this site, the same blvd. used by the whole town. Drawing 80% to 90% of the business to this site from outside Sunland / Tujunga will kill that Blvd. and the residence that live here. This is a small town with one blvd. that will get you in and out that is already taxed with traffic. This is Not a ratist or any other dumb comment made. Those who bring in these comments against the those who don not want the Home Depot have no other reason to use and that is another reason No Home Depot In Sunland / Tujunga and thank you for supporting us, even if you don't.
11:19 a.m. -- Unfortunately, you must be a casualty of California's public school system because your grammar and sentence structure is terrible!
Let's not forget that two-thirds of people in the U.S. who receive welfare are white. I guess they'd rather live off the system than
"stand outside and beg for work."
You see, the truth came out! Read 6:19
Foothill Blvd is a pit. There is nothing "charming" about it. Home Depot sees a run down Blvd with a plethora of automotive repair shops, 99 cent stores, used clothing stores, flower shops and Armenian Grocery stores. It also sees what we all see, the MOST ineffective Chamber of Commerce on the planet. Their biggest accompishment: the fireworks show! Imagine being the Chamber of Commerce in a town that desperately needs as much as your town seems to need and concentrating on a fireworks show! Home Depot does not see that their store could do much to make it worse.
Foothill Blvd cannot handle the additional traffic that a Home Depot would bring. This community is trying to improve Foothill Blvd and the surrounding area. That certainly won't happen if Home Depot bullies its way in. This community will be pulled further down by this industrial establishment. Home Depot needs to
sell their lease to a more suitable
business. This community will begin to improve once there is an anchor establishment to keep shoppers spending money locally instead of driving to Burbank.
What a bunch of noise from people who obviously don't understand the issue. We are not racists. We are trying to improve our town by asserting some local control. Since we had a "win" last week regarding the bogus traffic study that Home Depot submitted, they are now trying to ram a different set of building plans thru a different city department in order to avoid any type of environmental review. They don't care about our town, or any other town, and never will. All Home Depot cares about is making money on the backs of partime labor and putting other shops out of business.
Let home depot stay and do what they do.
The Mayor let contractors build condos after condos in every open space and did we cry? Nope.
La Mafia owns city hall
At February 28, 2006 8:37 AM, Anonymous said...
11:19 a.m. -- Unfortunately, you must be a casualty of California's public school system because your grammar and sentence structure is terrible!
Let's not forget that two-thirds of people in the U.S. who receive welfare are white. I guess they'd rather live off the system than
"stand outside and beg for work."
To the writer of the above:
You must be a casualty of California, where the truth is made on a movie set, and as for the two thirds figures of whites on welfare is off; the number is more like 26% of all filings and lower against the number of whites in America. The figures for other race groups are higher within their own race. And what’s the percentage of white’s that pay into the tax revenue system every year? Educate yourself look it up and when you do, wow that’s a lot, is what you’ll say.
But I would take issue with everybody who makes excuses for Home Depot instead of making valid points for Home Depot. This blog is great, it shows how home depot is doing the very thing you criticize the blog before yours, it’s OK to let Home Depot run down this town, and we should let them bring the day labors in at least these welfare recipients act like they want to work and hell some do want to make extra money, welfare checks aren’t enough.
I think the bloger was referring to those who write this stuff so people reading this sees just how ridiculous the case people try to make for Home Depot is.
Sorry if my grammar and sentence structure doesn’t meet you criteria, but at least my facts are right.
3:51 p.m.
First of all, your writing also sucks. For pete's sake, did anyone pass English? Secondly, your facts are also wrong.
According to 2000 Census Bureau statistics, 61 percent of welfare recipients are White, while 33 percent are Black, according to 1990 Census Bureau statistics.
As for your Home Depot argument. It contradicts the NHDC's concerns, which they cited as increased traffic and the potential harmful effects on the Crescenta Valley's hardware stores.
As I mentioned before, Dick or Hick (insert your name here), you view every issue through a racial and ethnic lens.
If you want to point a finger and blame day laborers for immigration-related problems, then call President Bush to fix this FEDERAL issue, once and for all (but, of course, he won't, since he knows the economy will tank once you close the borders).
Until then, quit complaining!!!
Your info is incorrect; also you site 2000 and follow with 1990 for census reports. And if you want to be political then the welfare we have is greatly thanks to the Demarcates, how do you think they won elections 20 years age? Giving things without earnings leaves no respect for what you have…
Also about NHDC’s findings is not correct with respect to the traffic, the local store services the local community, Home Depot will bring in 80 % or more outside traffic (not from the community) into the area, this will cause the increase that the little town and boulevard does not need.
No one is saying the day labors are illegal, that’s until you stated it. Funny how you can read into someone by there words.
Again make the case for Home Depot, I yet to hear it. Also the traffic report that DOT accepted the city rejected… So Home Depot back to square one… Make the case for Home Depot, I dare you…
Also, Your writing sucks, you most have attend California school system…
7:40 p.m.
Next time, please spare us from your 2nd grade writing skills. It's unfortunate and embarrasing that you can't spell or get your facts straight.
As for the welfare stats. Please check the Census 2000 website and you'll find the 61 percent white welfare figure. Unless, you think the Republican leadership is making these figures up to spew hatred against Anglos.
On top of being stupid, you must also be blind because I never mentioned "illegal" in my statement above. Unless, you think immigration = illegal, which wouldn't suprise me.
Again, I don't care whether Home Depot moves into the Sunland/Tujunga area, I'm simply bothered when idiots like you include "day laborers" into the argument on why HD shouldn't be allowed into the community.
Day Labors is an issue, but far from the big picture. Again nothing for Home Depot.
From the old K-Mart store (thats where HD wants to Build) 15 mins and less I can drive to 3 Home Depot's and a Lowes. So lets put in another HD. Lets put on in a town like Sunland.
And for your remarks, I welcome them I right to insite and when you don't have something for the issue you find or creat and issue to make you feel good...
Look it's that movie...
OK girls lets ask the more important question, what's the % of tax rev. is paid by the white? And does it matter?
I thought Day Labors was a holiday.
TAX REVENUE? BIG DEAL. ALL IT'S DOING IS PAYING FOR A FAKE WAR. WE'RE GETTING ROBBED, AND YET YOU POINT OUT A SILLY FACT. THERE'S MORE WHITE PEOPLE IN THE U.S., SO OF COURSE THEY PAY MORE TAXES. GEEZ... LOTS OF DUMMIES...GO TURN ON FOX NEWS!
And this has to do with Home Depot How???
And At least Fox News shows you the Truth!!! Keep on watching the I'll tell you how I want you to see thing my way News, cause giving you both sides will actual make you think, we can't have that...
Speaking of the truth, Home Depot does not belong in Sunland.
I am looking for the reasons Home Depot should be in Sunland, is there any?
Opps, its early I meant to say Keep on Watching the other News channels
Most would have figured that out, but for those others, well
Mayor starting this off with, “7-11 will not be able to open a store” is a little ingénues. Some Wal-marts have been targeted for reasons of putting little shops out of business and Home Depots have been targeted because of neighborhoods, being to close. I think that a need for any store that will properly serve the community is first on the list. Also I believe that commercial properties to close to residential areas are a bad thing. There is a big difference between a 7-11 and a Home Depot. To make this statement I am concern about you as a mayor.
The stuff that has been said in this blog is just crazy; going from “Foothill Blvd. is the pits” to “the fake war” all I can say is WOW! Some of you criticizing how someone writes grammar and sentence structure and welfare, this is amazing. But a few bloggers have continued to ask for the reason that Home Depot should be there and not one gave a good reason. Even the mayor who started this gave nothing but a stupid comparison with 7-11.
K-mart closed by court order not because the town didn’t buy enough Socks and stuff. I remember K-mart was always selling out of things; they could not keep stuff on their shelves.
Sunland has had poor leadership in the past, sold out to the high price dollar and has paid for it over and over again. Now finally there are some people that want to fix this town and bring it back to the small town in the foothills where you can raise you kids without the big city makeup. Because of this the Home Depot will not service Sunland / Tujunga in the way that will bring this town to that type of landscape.
One blogger has it correct, the Home Depot will bring an increase of traffic because 80% of the business Home Depot does will come from outside the Sunland/ Tujunga area, with K-Mart they only had outside business of around 20%, 80% was from the residents of Sunland / Tujunga.
Let’s do better than the Mayors opening blog and bring real pros and cons to this blog about Home Depot in Sunland / Tujunga. Let’s respect people’s point of view, but let’s make some real points of view. Let’s stay with the topic “Should Home Depot open a store in Sunland?”, “Does Sunland / Tujunga need a Home Depot?” and “Will Home Depot service most of its business to Sunland / Tujunga?” “Not Jobs, but selling of their product.
Lets start with a real and honest debate…
Such intellectual and thought-provoking discourse. People who cannot think logically, it seems, love to throw words as though they were stones, and viciously, and so I shall ignore those tiny minds which appear to be permanently weighted down in the cement of racism and name-calling like the little stones they've been throwing. (Home Depot cement, I presume.)
However, for anyone who is interested in the truth, and God knows, you'll never hear the truth on Fox news, here it is.
The people who live in Sunland-Tujunga in the United States of America have an inalienable right, at least it has not been lost yet, to rally together for or against an issue. Nearly all of the people in Sunland-Tujunga agree that they want to protect their small-town and it's rural atmosphere.
Over ninety-five percent of us do not want a Home Depot in our town.
Our school children walk to school on Foothill and the residential streets that line two sides of the proposed Home Depot site where phenomenal increases in diesel semi-trucks, delivery trucks, and other vehicles would travel. We do not want this hugh increased amount of traffic, nor the kinds of traffic, nor the increased safety risks, nor the increased pollution, nor the noise that this traffic would bring. Those semis would come into our town both day and night.
What used to take five minutes to drive in our town ten years ago now takes twenty-five minutes during peak hours. Why would we want to encourage one more vehicle, much less deisel semis?
We do not want the documented increases in crime that Home Depot sites bring to a community. The statistics do not lie. For whatever reasons, Home Depots bring an increased crime rate.
We have many long-time businesses, not just hardwares, that we want to protect. They are owned by and employ our friends, neighbors, moms and pops.
Our Chamber or Commerce supports us in our efforts to stop Home Depot, and they are also made up of our friends and our neighbors. They do monumental fundraising to keep their doors open and to put on the greatest fireworks display in Los Angeles for the benefit of all of us, the same people who so unanimously oppose Home Depot. And you ought to see our Fourth of July Parade.
Last year, the Mayor's very first event as Mayor was to ride in a car at the front of our parade next to Wendy Greuel in a car that said, "No Home Depot in Sunland-Tujunga."
We love our town. We love our children. We respect each other. We are intolerant of racism. We honor the right to protest. We demand to have input in the structuring of our community for it is after all the place where we live.
Seems to me that an outsider would admire us for that.
With respects to the last blog I would agree with everything except the Fox News commit. Over the past four years I have watched Fox News and ABC and A little of NBC, let me add I watched Good Morning America since 1977 when David Hartman was the Host. Over the past four years I have seen such slanted reporting from ABC & NBC that it amazed me. I started keep track of news information that was reports by all three and was shocked to see how NBC & ABC would present it and their follow-up on the story as it came out. To check their news info I would look on line for more reporting and many time ABC & NBC had to retract parts of the report.
Fox News is a good News source for information that isn’t slanted as what people call the main stream media. Look at the LA times; they blow it last governor’s election.
People should look at Fox News and ABC or NBC and take one story that is very controversial and listen to them, then research it on the web, you will become a Fox News fan as most American are. Fox News has more viewers then the three network combine, which tells a lot.
Look for yourself and treat your self to the most truthful News reporting out their.
I laughed at the comment posted above. I guess Fox has another brainwashed cowboy to add to their list. Fair and balanced? Quit lying to yourself. If you want to watch news that is news, then I'd recommend the BBC at 6 p.m.
As for 11:47 p.m.
I loved the post. Very compelling stuff until you mentioned, "We do not want the documented increases in crime that Home Depot sites bring to a community."
If the stats don't lie, can you reference your source? I'll laugh if it's Fox News.
You must be a brain washed mainstream viewer, At least I found out for my self who slants the news, with reports from all sources. I heard tapes of news reports and then saw how the mainstream reported it. My ears don’t lie… Also explain if you can why Fox News has more viewers than CBS, ABC and NBC combine? They have more viewers than BBC and CNN. I would guess because all these news originations have been caught in their slanted reporting fashion.
Talk about brain washed, people like you have been brain washed for so many years it’s like a bad habit you can’t brake it.
All those reading this I say check out all of the networks listed and cross check their reporting, find out the depth of the story and see who tells you the most about it. Also ask your self why these networks do have both sides of the story and why their paid contributors are all for one party (Demarcates) and they don’t have as many from the other party.
Take the Kristina tapes, the meteorologist on tape, if you listen to the tape over and over you’ll hear him say the water will top over the levy’s, but listing to the reports from ABC & NBC they do not play the tape but rather tell you what he said, and that’s this; the water will breach the levy’s, thus making a slanted report to tell you everybody knew and was saying this would happen. Makes you think that everybody knew, doesn’t it? But the truth is everybody though it could, a big difference because not many said it is going to, even the weak mayor and the governor was told to leave by the federal agency because the levy’s broke, she didn’t even know…
Yes, you will know what God knows by comparing these news agencies, the truth…
Some one point out a error in my blog I wrote Take the Kristina tapes, the meteorologist on tape, if you listen to the tape over and over you’ll hear him say the water will top over the levy’s,
the correction is
Take the Kristina tapes, the meteorologist on tape, if you listen to the tape over and over you’ll hear him say the water may top over the levy’s,
the single word was MAY. I was caugh doing what the mainstream media does, I am sorry about that, see they do it so much, well, see how it makes you think.
to the poster above: please come down from reality! not sure if you are being paid by Fox, but please spare me that lines that Fox is fair and balanced. you have a republican administration that is full of lies and guess who they run to when they want to spread them: fox news.
For example, Dick Cheney ran to FOX News and Brit Hume to make his first public statements about the shooting. That's a little like Bonnie interviewing Clyde!
I mean, where was the news conference? Where was the access to all of the members of the media? running over there to the Fox was a safe haven. He's not going to get any high, hard ones from anybody at the F-word network. I think we know that.
By the way, it's "Katrina," dummy! Not "Kristina." Obviously, Fox News is not educating you since you can't remember Hurricane Katrina, one of the LARGEST natural disasters in our nation’s history.
Oh, I forgot. No Home Depot in Sunland/Tujunga!
My 11:47 PM, March 03 comment about Fox News apparently should generate another comment site, particularly as it was never my intent to take attention away from Home Depot--it was just difficult to pass a reference to Fox News as a reliable news source. Nor was it my intent that people who care about Home Depot would waste their time responding to people who "love" Bill, Brit, Sean, and Geraldo. It is an exercise in futiliy to argue with people who don't know any better. However, in case there is anyone who does have doubts about Fox's propaganda techniques, I suggest they listen to AM 1150 KTLK for a while, and perhaps they will realize that news should come from facts. On 1150 AM the broadcasters actually present facts and the locations where the facts can be verified which are much better places to spend your time than shouting names and insinuations at one another.
Again, this post is about NO HOME DEPOT IN SUNLAND-TUJUNGA!
Oh I forgot the mainstream media should have the right to any news, not places like Fox News... who cares about the name its facts you can't bring an argument against. Why doesn’t Hilary Clinton, or Barbara Boxer or Diane Feinstein go on Fox, they only go on news stations that give them a pass, or I should say read from their script.
Gee it’s ok for them but not for Dick Chaney, Brain washed. Like I said do what I said earlier and you’ll find out why Fox News is so big, aired in more country then any of the mainstream news. You just have to ask why is that? And no I do not work for Fox I am tied of being lied all these years, and if the truth was told more often you would find out what a sham the Clinton’s are. It makes me sick to think I support Him…
Next you’ll write that it was not Jamie Gralicks (not sure how she spells her name and don’t care) or Bill Clintons fault that 9/11 happened it was George Bush’s fault… Reality, I will watch the mainstream media to learn what is reality!!! Ya Right
This is what happens when you get the residents of Sunland-Tujunga riled up!
Home Depot had no idea what a hornets nest they are sticking their hand into! I think they do now though, and
I hope other communities across the country that are trying to have a say in the way their town is run will take note from this fine group of people!
These people should inspire us all!
No Home Depot in Sunland-Tujunga!
Ok 11:47..The Chamber of Commerce raises funds to keep their OWN doors open and puts on a Fireworks show and a Parade and has parties to congratulate themselves. Meanwhile, there is nowhere for the people of Sunland Tujunga to buy underwear for their children. Hmmm..seems like they forgot the COMMERCE part of their name. Or perhaps they really have done their job and attracted all the Auto Repairs shops and Thrift Stores. There is no where for a person to shop either on Foothill Blvd or Commerce Ave. Face reality. All the money leaves Sunland Tujunga and the City of Los Angeles and goes to the Cities of Burbank/Pasadena/La Canada/Glendale. Sunland Tujunga does not need another Hardware store. We need a general merchchandise store, a movie theater, DECENT restuarants, the list of what we do need and want and CAN support is endless.
I guess there are no comments for Home Depot. I would say a lot has been defeated on this blog, Home Depot being the number one.
Lots of very good reason for NO HOME DEPOT in Sunland / Tujunga.
Some truth was aired; I think mainly the K-Mart closing, not because of lack of business but court order. Think about it if there where not court order K-Mart would still be there making money.
Home Depot should be ashamed of what they are trying to do to this town.
Sunland-Tujunga is a diamond in the rough, and Home Depot wants to snuff out their chance to develop this town in accordance with the way the community wants to see this area progress.
I hope Wendy Greuel isn't just blowing smoke !
You folks in Sunland need to wake up and be thankfull that any business would even WANT to build in that town, full of homeless people and drug addicts. Can't you see that a Home Depot might even clean the town up a bit??
It's very obvious that the person who said no one would would want to live in Sunland-Tujunga is ignorant and hasn't spent much time here. We are thankful for that. Please, who ever you are, stay where you are. You are too narrow minded and have nothing to contribute to our community. Therefore, we certainly don't want you here!
March 24 8:05pm writes the blog of the month, what a pin head. This town has very respectful people who care for it. You are a “the glass is half empty person and see’s glum in everything around you. This city if had good control can get back to where the rich what to live there like 10 to 15 years ago. Narrow minded is to nice of a word to describe that blog. Home Depot would dirty it up even more, then people would leave and then you statements might come true. But I am glad you’re a pin head and the town people know what they want, and going all the way to get it.
Mayor Sam you need to do your home work and be more correct when you write something, you are wrong, wrong and far from the truth
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