tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post112256532457808619..comments2024-01-13T00:27:20.813-08:00Comments on Mayor Sam's Sister City - Home of Los Angeles Politics: A Breathe of Fresh AirMayor Samhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16280670018437708708noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123099581331961482005-08-03T13:06:00.000-07:002005-08-03T13:06:00.000-07:00As to August 2, 10:08 AM: Sounds like a pretty go...As to August 2, 10:08 AM: <BR/><BR/>Sounds like a pretty good description of what the Port and its clients and surrogates have done to Wilmington and San Pedro for 50 years. Captures their atittude quite nicely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123016036977676522005-08-02T13:53:00.000-07:002005-08-02T13:53:00.000-07:00Electrifying the tracks on the Alameda Corridor fr...Electrifying the tracks on the Alameda Corridor from the Port to the main facility in the Inland Empire will cost roughly $6 Million/mile, add about $5-6 million per electric Locomotive that you'll need to shuttle the freight to the main distribution center in the Inland areas. The price is probably cheaper than expanding the 710Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123014353008123282005-08-02T13:25:00.000-07:002005-08-02T13:25:00.000-07:00I don't have a problem with the moral argument pre...I don't have a problem with the moral argument presenting itself here, but I agree that we need to identify very specific strategies for change.<BR/><BR/>I think the rail industry needs to get on board with a willingness to clean up their act too. I would like to see electric rail used to service the port. <BR/><BR/>I know the cost would be extremely high, but they are talking about spending billions of dollars to expand the freeways that service the port -- why not leave the freeways alone and invest in electric rail instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123007220142895752005-08-02T11:27:00.000-07:002005-08-02T11:27:00.000-07:00^ This is my exact reason for not voting for AV be...^ This is my exact reason for not voting for AV because he was talking out of his ass. <BR/><BR/>I remeber during the primaries when the 5 candiates had a debate at LACMA. The only guy who made sense of the issue and explained why that wouldn't work was Hahn. He knew that it would not only effect us locally but have a major effect globally.<BR/><BR/>I remember that there was a port strike in 2003 that effected the International Economy. So cleaning up the port isn't just a local effort it's going to take National and International Will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123006856040496372005-08-02T11:20:00.000-07:002005-08-02T11:20:00.000-07:00To Anon 3:57, August 01:"If we insisted that the P...To Anon 3:57, August 01:<BR/><BR/><I>"If we insisted that the Pacific Rim use clean ships, it would cost them more to export their goods."</I><BR/><BR/>I think one problem with this idea, while it would reduce pollution (whatever a "clean" ship might be), nothing short of an international treaty would be required for it to ttake effect.<BR/><BR/>I might be wrong, but I think that serious solutions like this are totally off the board - because they are international issues. The federal government is the one with real say in this type of issue.<BR/><BR/>If we could get anyone in D.C. to respond to port pollution problems, the first order of business would be to make diesel emissions standards stricter. Good luck with that one, however.<BR/><BR/>In Southern California, the "low hanging fruit" in the environmental movement is quickly disappearing - and economic growth is outpacing our ability to mitigate its environmental effects. Nothing short of a radical re-working of our economy will work to reduce the burden we put on our natural resources.<BR/><BR/>To the other Anon who stated:<BR/><I>"Our hesitation to make sacrifices will be the curse hanging over our children's, and their children's, heads."</I><BR/><BR/>I think that environmentalists have taken this moral argument for "sacrifice" as far as it can go. The time has come to enumerate specific economic problems created by pollution. Noel Park has done this previously (or attempted to), by citing studies that estimate the cost of providing extra health care, and paid sick days, to citizens hurt by air pollution.<BR/><BR/>A lack of biodiversity, clean air, clean water, and natural ecosystems can be shown to be bad long-term economic planning. Drop the moral argument and start identifying ways to help our economy through conservation, efficiency and research of living systems.Sahra Bogadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801946616442070294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1123002502218013682005-08-02T10:08:00.000-07:002005-08-02T10:08:00.000-07:00You want to know who I am Noel? I'm your Daddy an...You want to know who I am Noel? I'm your Daddy and you're my bitch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122941987071755042005-08-01T17:19:00.000-07:002005-08-01T17:19:00.000-07:00Where do the unions stand on this air pollution is...Where do the unions stand on this air pollution issue? I would think they have taken some sort of official action to protect their membership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122939784735870292005-08-01T16:43:00.000-07:002005-08-01T16:43:00.000-07:00Oh, are you one of those port advocates that keep ...Oh, are you one of those port advocates that keep saying "if you don't like it, move," when harbor area residents raise concerns about air pollution?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122938177349604552005-08-01T16:16:00.000-07:002005-08-01T16:16:00.000-07:00Noelsters,How about the irony of knocking down ano...Noelsters,<BR/><BR/>How about the irony of knocking down anonymuos posters and praising "Mayor Sam's" blog or "Mayor Frank's" post? <BR/><BR/>You guys piddle around proclaiming the virtue of "outing" yourselves on a website hosted by an anonymous person(s)? And you guys are the genius decision makers that I'm supposed to put my childrens futures' in?<BR/><BR/>I'd say "if you don't like it go somewhere else" but that logic was lost a long time ago on you guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122937050128277712005-08-01T15:57:00.000-07:002005-08-01T15:57:00.000-07:00If we insisted that the Pacific Rim use clean ship...If we insisted that the Pacific Rim use clean ships, it would cost them more to export their goods. But they would do it, because we, the American consumer, are supporting almost their entire economy.<BR/><BR/>They would have to raise the price of their products - Walmart crap would cost more - the American consumer would consume less at Walmart.<BR/><BR/>This would help with the trade deficit and the air pollution.<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to sound remedial, but doesn't this make sense?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122931224770735982005-08-01T14:20:00.000-07:002005-08-01T14:20:00.000-07:00Who are you? Care to name yourself?Who are you? Care to name yourself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122923146361579392005-08-01T12:05:00.000-07:002005-08-01T12:05:00.000-07:00Who is "we" Noel. Who are you claiming to speak f...Who is "we" Noel. Who are you claiming to speak for? Care to list their names?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122919277293752312005-08-01T11:01:00.001-07:002005-08-01T11:01:00.001-07:00In response to "Anon 5:24", five years we ago aske...In response to "Anon 5:24", five years we ago asked the Port to begin keeping a spread sheet with all of the initiatives undertaken to reduce pollution, and the resulting reductions, offset against the increases which result from constant growth, and the contstruction of new projects.<BR/><BR/>This would provide a running total of the pollution, and whether it is going up or down. The Port has not done this, because they know perfectly well that the reduction projects, whether brought about by the goodness of their hearts or by litigation, have so far only barely slowed the rate of growth of pollution.<BR/><BR/>Instead we get blasts of PR and spin every time something is done - cold ironing being a perfect example - and steady growth of pollution.<BR/><BR/>The "No Net Increase" report posted by Mayor Frank, while long, complex, and extremely dense, does show exactly what would be necessary to control the pollution at the 2001 level (not good enough, but a good start).<BR/><BR/>We have asked for this list and these numbers for 5 years. Show the public the numbers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122919274158693722005-08-01T11:01:00.000-07:002005-08-01T11:01:00.000-07:00In response to "Anon 5:24", five years we ago aske...In response to "Anon 5:24", five years we ago asked the Port to begin keeping a spread sheet with all of the initiatives undertaken to reduce pollution, and the resulting reductions, offset against the increases which result from constant growth, and the contstruction of new projects.<BR/><BR/>This would provide a running total of the pollution, and whether it is going up or down. The Port has not done this, because they know perfectly well that the reduction projects, whether brought about by the goodness of their hearts or by litigation, have so far only barely slowed the rate of growth of pollution.<BR/><BR/>Instead we get blasts of PR and spin every time something is done - cold ironing being a perfect example - and steady growth of pollution.<BR/><BR/>The "No Net Increase" report posted by Mayor Frank, while long, complex, and extremely dense, does show exactly what would be necessary to control the pollution at the 2001 level (not good enough, but a good start).<BR/><BR/>We have asked for this list and these numbers for 5 years. Show the public the numbers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122918086563182522005-08-01T10:41:00.000-07:002005-08-01T10:41:00.000-07:00Shut up Noel. You probably didn't hear the REST o...Shut up Noel. You probably didn't hear the REST of the harbor community discussing the issues because you were too busy bloviating, since you like the sound of your own voice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122910717638355842005-08-01T08:38:00.000-07:002005-08-01T08:38:00.000-07:00Wow! 59 comments and actually serious discussion ...Wow! <BR/><BR/>59 comments and actually serious discussion of the public policy issues!<BR/><BR/>As someone commented several days ago, maybe this blog really will go mainstream.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122908833855004482005-08-01T08:07:00.000-07:002005-08-01T08:07:00.000-07:00Okay, I won't call you TL.Again, I don't disagree ...Okay, I won't call you TL.<BR/><BR/>Again, I don't disagree with your points -- but you are missing mine.<BR/><BR/>I do not believe that the average human being readily makes sacrifices for the common good, especially in controversial arenas such as environmentalism.<BR/><BR/>For those who are paying attention to the environment, it is becomming more and more clear that the consequences of Man's environmental interference have the potential to be devastating. There will come a time when environmentalism will become a matter of survival. I believe that time is now.<BR/><BR/>Our hesitation to make sacrifices will be the curse hanging over our children's, and their children's, heads. <BR/><BR/>In the case of the Port of Los Angeles, the environmental consequences are far reaching, as the ships travel the globe. Right now, we focus first and foremost on the financial aspects of the Port, but the environmental aspects are just as critical, and they have a financial impact as well. <BR/><BR/>The financial impacts to the port communities, and globally, of the Port's environmental abuses are compounding, as we sit around tables and debate the issue.<BR/><BR/>We need to take swift action and stop making excuses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122883304908622482005-08-01T01:01:00.000-07:002005-08-01T01:01:00.000-07:00To 10:56 -Who or what is this TL? Now, on to your...To 10:56 -<BR/><BR/>Who or what is this TL? <BR/><BR/>Now, on to your post, “You are seeing the big picture, but not the biggest picture ---which is that people will have to be TAUGHT to make sacrifices in order to protect the environment” I am all for teaching, but some people wish not or can not learn. Or more importantly some may not agree with your viewpoint despite all your teaching. We are a pluralistic society were many viewpoints are held. Must all subscribe to your viewpoint? In the Red States of the U.S. the viewpoint is that G.W. Bush (a.k.a. Shrub) is the greatest thing since Ronnie Reagon while to the rest of the country he is evil incarnate; to loggers of the Northwest the Spotted Owl is bad while to bird watchers it is a good thing to have the owls; to some skiers Mineral King should have been turned into a ski resort while to naturalists it is best to be without the ski resort; to boat operators who book whale watching trips protecting the gray whales is good while for Aleuts hunting the whales is good. Who is right?<BR/><BR/>From the emphasis you put on teaching people to make sacrifices I question how far would you go to make people see it your way? You seem to believe that the some enviable dawning will occur and that society will rush embrace their earth mother. Human nature being what it is, we all like to believe that each and every human is willing to sacrifice and modify their behavior for the common good. But human history teaches a different lesson. This also begs the question, what is the common good?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122871405613745582005-07-31T21:43:00.000-07:002005-07-31T21:43:00.000-07:00Before you go calling people names you think your ...Before you go calling people names you think your talking to ASSHOLE, check your facts,<BR/>Anyone who is anyone could tell you I have been at music by the sea and then the Redman Hall all day, this is the first I have looked at what all you idiots do in your spare time.<BR/>I try to live life, not talk all day on a dam computer to a bunch of gadflies.<BR/>Really you should give me a break, I told you I don't need to sign in as anonoymous, I'll tell you to your face your an ASSHOLE!<BR/>Are you ready to face the fact that I am not the only one in San Pedro who feel the way I do, there are others. But keep believing I am the only one your are talking to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122862781276313172005-07-31T19:19:00.000-07:002005-07-31T19:19:00.000-07:00I hope he has the guts and the brains to do it.I hope he has the guts and the brains to do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122862100427196422005-07-31T19:08:00.000-07:002005-07-31T19:08:00.000-07:00Warren is correct in that the Ports of Los Angeles...Warren is correct in that the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach are not going to go away. That Mexico argument is an excuse to do nothing. An action plan for the Mayor is simple really: Implement the 20 or so "agreed upon" reforms from the No Net Increase Report immediately (and continue analysis on the balance); work to move the majority of cargo on the Alameda Corridor (and reduce the trucks on local streets and freeways); expand the programs to measure where the pollution is (and at what levels); dismantle the Harbor Department's "spin" machine and let their actions speak louder than their words; increase the pollution fighting budget; increase the budget for creating greenbelts separating the Port and neighborhoods; improve the honesty in the Port's EIRs; let the local people continue to have a forum for monitoring the Port's behavior (i.e. PCAC), and make Wilmington waterfront access a Priority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122858602315348332005-07-31T18:10:00.000-07:002005-07-31T18:10:00.000-07:00Cathy, you idiot, that's not the definition of obf...Cathy, you idiot, that's not the definition of obfuscate!<BR/><BR/>OBFUSCATE - (obfuscation, n.) The set of practices most often utilized by the Bush administration and the Port of Los Angeles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122857305186200092005-07-31T17:48:00.000-07:002005-07-31T17:48:00.000-07:00Why do you keep copying the same post over and ove...Why do you keep copying the same post over and over again -- don't you realize you are a complete bore.<BR/><BR/>BORE - To weary by being dull.<BR/><BR/>DULL - Lacking in intelligence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122856429481302962005-07-31T17:33:00.000-07:002005-07-31T17:33:00.000-07:00Noelsters, History 101 -"Anonymous said... I knew...Noelsters, <BR/><BR/>History 101 -<BR/><BR/>"Anonymous said... <BR/>I knew John Gibson. And you sir, are no John Gibson. You are but an uninformed and bitter loser. <BR/>July 20, 2005 12:20 AM <BR/>Anonymous<BR/>……….Let me ask you(Noel) this, do you still profess to represent the majority of San Pedro homeowners, residents, gadflies, or just your personal opinion or organization? Do you think that a community forum that does not include anyone CURRENTLY making money off of port businesses is a place where true conclusions on public opinion can be made? Or is it that you just don't care what the community thinks unless they agree with you. You believe in democracy right?<BR/><BR/>Your minions have already stated in this blog that business people don't count. Huddle up before you answer.<BR/><BR/>Nice "loser" comment too, previous anon. Don't you agree, Noel? <BR/>July 20, 2005 10:37 AM <BR/>noel park said... <BR/>If you can't stand the message, attack the messenger. <BR/>July 20, 2005 11:12 AM"<BR/><BR/>Now was Noel;<BR/><BR/>A) Agreeing that "John Gibson was a loser<BR/><BR/>B) Giving you guys directions if anyone on this blog got to close to home<BR/><BR/>C) All of the above<BR/><BR/>OBFUSCATE - <BR/><BR/>1. ...to make obscure or unclear; to obfuscate a problem with extraeous information<BR/><BR/>OR<BR/><BR/>2. a tool to use when trying to avoid the admittance of being MYOPIC<BR/><BR/>keep spinning, VROOM! VROOM!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8826939.post-1122832582350755082005-07-31T10:56:00.000-07:002005-07-31T10:56:00.000-07:00I guess it is you, TL, well I'll be damned.Anyway,...I guess it is you, TL, well I'll be damned.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I read your post and I don't disagree with many of your points. I still think you are focusing on the excuses, not the solutions.<BR/><BR/>You are seeing the big picture, but not the biggest picture ---which is that people will have to be TAUGHT to make sacrifices in order to protect the environment.<BR/><BR/>Eventually, these sacrifices will be forced upon us. There will be no other option. The biggest polluters, ie - the shipping industry, need to be first in line for reform. Now is the time to insist on it. No more excuses.<BR/><BR/>To Peter Warren - I appreciate that you use your name -- I don't recognize it -- are you active in the Port area? One of the reason's I don't use my name is because of the attempts to crucify those who do. You can see some of the personal attacks on this thread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com